50 watt amps vs 100 watt amps

[brianhood]

Is there a difference in sound for 50-60 watt heads vs. their 100-120 watt counterparts? Is it just a volume difference?

For example, the 50 watt Marshall JCM 800 vs the 100 watt version or the VHT Deliverance 60 watt vs the 120 watt.

 

[slashvanyoung]

Pro 50 watts:
- amp "opens" up earlier, you'll reach the sweet spot at lower volumes (which is quite significant with an 800)
- power amp/tube saturation/distortion at lower levels (not everyone likes that though)

Contra:
- less headroom, especially the clean channel will break up (aka distort) earlier

The perceived difference in volume isn't all that huge.

 

[ForefrontStudio]

On my Mesa Stiletto I can switch between 50 and 150 watts on each channel. I found that 150 watts seemed thicker... but maybe it's just me.

 

[slashvanyoung]

If the preamp is the same between different wattage models and the poweramp just differs in the amount of tubes, than the sound shouldn't be very different.

Sometimes it's strange: Many people prefer the Dual Recto (100 watts) over the Single (50 watts), but between Dual and Triple (150 watts) doesn't seem to be much of a difference.

 

[brianhood]

well i found a50 watt 2204 jcm 800 on craigslist for cheap, so that's mainly why i wanted to know.

I was also looking at purchasing the 60 watt VHT deliverance head

 

[AudioPhile777]

well i found a50 watt 2204 jcm 800 on craigslist for cheap, so that's mainly why i wanted to know.

Do it. do it now.

 

[ForefrontStudio]

If the preamp is the same between different wattage models and the poweramp just differs in the amount of tubes, than the sound shouldn't be very different.

Sometimes it's strange: Many people prefer the Dual Recto (100 watts) over the Single (50 watts), but between Dual and Triple (150 watts) doesn't seem to be much of a difference.

I know it seems like that. I always thought that too, but for some reason I swear the tone is thicker. maybe there is something in the power section that runs hotter or to it's full extent when on 150? I dunno.

as far as the 800 goes, GET IT! those are one of my favorite amps of all time. I've been wanting to get me one for years. I was actually texting a friend of mine earlier today about his seeing if he'll let me borrow it... kinda ironic.

if you don't mind me asking, how much is that guy asking? I saw one on craigslist near me for around $1,200 earlier this week

 

[brianhood]

I know it seems like that. I always thought that too, but for some reason I swear the tone is thicker. maybe there is something in the power section that runs hotter or to it's full extent when on 150? I dunno.

as far as the 800 goes, GET IT! those are one of my favorite amps of all time. I've been wanting to get me one for years. I was actually texting a friend of mine earlier today about his seeing if he'll let me borrow it... kinda ironic.

if you don't mind me asking, how much is that guy asking? I saw one on craigslist near me for around $1,200 earlier this week

he's asking $850 for the amp and a 4x12 Sunn cab. It was posted last week, and he said it was still available. I asked what he'd want for just the amp(as i have no interest in those cabs), and he hasnt gotten back yet.

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

Wattage doesn't translate as just volume. It's especially true with solid state vs. valve amp.

In my band one guitarist uses a 150W Line 6 Spider 3 Puke, and with the channel volume maxed and the master at 7 he gets drowned out by the other guy's 50W Marshall combo with the volume on 3-4.

On the same model head with different outputs, it's often less about volume and more about all out power - if the 100W head will run two cabs full out, the 50W might struggle to match it.

Steve

 

[zakky]

im not sure but the difference between 50-100 watts is very few db,s also 50 watts cranks alot easier at lower volume............

 

[Kevolicious]

I would say for recording purposes, lower wattage is always more desirable. At what point recording have you ever needed MORE volume on an amp? And the 50 watt JCM800 is absolutely killer IMO. Just picked up a JCM2000 for my other guitarist a few days ago for $525! See if the guy will come down in price on the 800.. I've seen them sell in the $500 range depending on their condition.

 

[Kevolicious]

Wattage doesn't translate as just volume. It's especially true with solid state vs. valve amp.

Steve

DOUBLE TRUE! Solid State heads are more inefficient with their power, producing less volume.

 

[Torniojaws]

Sometimes it's strange: Many people prefer the Dual Recto (100 watts) over the Single (50 watts), but between Dual and Triple (150 watts) doesn't seem to be much of a difference.

But doesn't the Single have a different preamp than the Dual and Triple have? It's not just the watts causing the preference.

As for volume, you need to TENFOLD the power to halve/double the volume

To halve the volume compared to a 100 W amp, you need a (100/10) = 10 W amp
To double the volume compared to a 100 W amp, you need a (100*10) = 1000 W amp

 

[nwright]

IMO, the big difference comes in terms of headroom. At low volumes, there may not be a big perceived difference, but once you turn them up I think 50 or 60 watter may thin out a bit more than a higher wattage amp of the same type. AS the headroom of the 50 watter is eaten up and power tube breakup comes into play, I think the thickness or bigness of the tone can suffer. Maybe it's just me, but on any amp that has a "half the watts" variant, I've found I prefer the higher wattage version. The low end seems fuller, seems to have a little more punch, etc. I know with a lower wattage amp you hit the sweet spot sooner and get power tube breakup which many seem to prefer...But for metal, I don't get too much into power tube breakup, as I think it makes the low end a little too muddy or loose, or it just kinda washes out in general. Keeping enough headroom to keep the low end big and clean (well, relatively speaking) is something I'd be more interested in, personally.

That said, depending on the amp, the "big" factor may be there in a 50 watt version...I'm just saying doing some comparos side by side, I think you can usually tell a difference, and to me it's the punch, depth and thickness that you notice with the higher wattage version. At rehearsal a few weeks back, the studio we rehearse at has a couple 800's there, a 50 watt and 100 watt. I asked the owner if I could try them out and the 100 watter just had more oomph and thickness to it...But, the 50 still had enough.

EDIT

My comments I should clarify are based on what I've heard playing them. Whether or not any of this makes any difference in a miked up recording situation I have no clue.

 

[VH100R]

The perceived difference in volume isn't all that huge.

true

 

[Trevoire520]

When I first ordered my Marshall DSL50 the guitar store gave me a loan of their DSL100 until it arrived as I was ampless at the time.

There was definitely a difference, the 100 watt had bigger and tighter lows compared to the 50 watt, the gain was a little different too. This could have been a biasing thing though.

 

[HeadCrusher]

^and which one sounded better to you?

 

[GarethSE]

A fucking SunnO))) cab?!?!
I HATE YOU

 

[Harry Hughes]

im not sure but the difference between 50-100 watts is very few db,s also 50 watts cranks alot easier at lower volume............

3 dBs IIRC.

 

[Trevoire520]

^and which one sounded better to you?

Definitely the 100 watter, I have to admit I was a little dissapointed with the sound when the 50 watt arrived. Didn't have the extra cash for the 100 watt though.

As I said, maybe it was just that the 100 watt was biased differently, but I always wished the 50 would sound like the 100. Doesn't matter now though as I've sold it. lol.