And then ? The final step

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Hey I'm wondering this little crazy question...

So I have recorded, produced, mixed and mastered the album for this band, we are happy, the sky is blue and girls topless - or sheeps should I say, for at least one of us ... Now, I have this huge 16 bits 44,100 Khz file, all transitions between tracks are ok, the silent between each song is calculated according to the rules of the good "home mastering boy"... But then, what should I do to send all this to the factory or give to the band ??? Burn this on a cheap CDR ? Mmmmh, I guess that's not the correct answer here.

A little help could be welcome cause I'm stepping into the unknown

Thanks guys

 

[Andy Sneap]

i just use any half decent brand of CD. To be honest it's tought to tell whats good and whats not as different burners work better with different brands. Just burn at slowest speed and print text version of timings/codes etc out for the manufacturer (not always needed). If theres a problem with the CDR they usually do an error check.

 

[egan.]

One rule of thumb I've heard for burn speed is to go at 50% the max burn speed of the drive. Also, most burn software can run a basic error check as well. The really expensive "pro" Cd's are bullshit from what I can tell. I've never met any studio/engineer/mastering engineer that would pay 10 times more for Apogee (or some other "pro") media b/c as Andy said it has more to do with what media your drive 'likes.'
If the label/band has a manufacturer picked and paid it makes sense to send directly to them, but ultimately just ask the label/band whether they want you to send it or put it in their hands. They're the ones paying you after all.

 

[zenx]

One rule of thumb I've heard for burn speed is to go at 50% the max burn speed of the drive.

Andy is right, the slower you burn the better. Just look it up, there's tons of info on burning cdrs for pressing plants. And also, if there's a problem with it, the plant will just call (well, hopefully...).

 

[SPLASTiK]

I've always read to burn at 2x to avoid any errors.

They say burning below 2x or burning 4x and above increases error rates.

And yeah, look in your drives manuals for preferred brands of CD's. I'm a stickler for CDR quality though so I try to buy something semi-decent. Just stay away from the shiny on both sides ones.

 

[egan.]

I've always read to burn at 2x to avoid any errors.

They say burning below 2x or burning 4x and above increases error rates.

And yeah, look in your drives manuals for preferred brands of CD's. I'm a stickler for CDR quality though so I try to buy something semi-decent. Just stay away from the shiny on both sides ones.

This is what I've learned as well. If you burn too slowly with high speed drives you can actually create additional problems b/c the laser burns the pits too deeply.
The 2x or 4x thing was the standard when I first started sending stuff to production but at that time 8x was a fast drive. These rules about speed have to do with the computer and drives capabilities and should evolve as equipment improves.

 

[metalkingdom]

The really expensive "pro" Cd's are bullshit from what I can tell. I've never met any studio/engineer/mastering engineer that would pay 10 times more for Apogee (or some other "pro") media

You obviously haven't been to many real studios.

An Apogee cd costs $1.97 at Guitar Center. Your clients will be happier when you give them a quality cd, especially if it's a mastered master. Andy can get away with it because, well, he's Andy.

Call Bernie Grundman's or Futuredisk and ask them - I guarantee they don't use TDK, Maxell and the like.

It's all about the adhesive. Does anyone here know the "magic marker CD repair" trick?

2x - are you guys kiddin' me???!!! If your clients are "on the clock" and waiting for their music, you're gonna get your ass kicked like that. 16x works lovely on a Mac in Toast.

 

[Andy Sneap]

ask a pro mastering studio for a CDR copy it'll be more like $100! Are you telling me an Apogee CD is better than a Sony or TDK?? Guess that pink logo must make a difference, I've never had a problem with a mastering plant because of this. I just do the usual thing of cheap crappy ones for listening copies, decent branded ones for masters, but I'd never burn a master at 16x.

 

[James Murphy]

it's always been my practice to turn in masters on Apogee CDRs and to burn them at 1x speed.. one recent exception had some negative results:

after completing the Mastering for Enforsaken's "The Forever Endeavor", out now on Century Media / Olympic, i turned in a master which i burned on a Fuji Cdr... i was out of Apogee and had no ride to the store where i buy my Apogee cdr stock. i sent the band reference copies burned onto cheap, no-name cdrs. the band called me up and loved the work i did.... all seemed well. a week later however i got a call from the band's guitarist Steve who sounded a little stressed out... the Master and Safety Master had both failed to pass the plant's error count (also called bler rate) checks and the the plant therefore refused to proceed with the manufacturing run.. they wanted new masters. i called the plant and spoke to the guy who ran the tests which my masters had failed. what follows is the advice/instructions i received directly from that person who conducts these tests at a manufacturing plant.. a plant that does manufcacturing for many Major and large independant labels:

1. make sure your burner is on the internal ata bus of your computer and that it is a model recommended by your software vendor.

2. use only high quality CDR media such as Apogee, Tayo Yuden, Verbatim, etc.... not to say that cheaper branded cdr's won't work... just that the other brands are preferred by the plants.

3. burn only at 1x speed

4. burn only using "disc-at-once" mode... never use "track-at once" mode.

5. do not use the "CD Text" features of your cd burning software.

that was the only failure i ever had and i have not had one since, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[egan.]

You obviously haven't been to many real studios.

An Apogee cd costs $1.97 at Guitar Center. Your clients will be happier when you give them a quality cd, especially if it's a mastered master. Andy can get away with it because, well, he's Andy.

I've used apogee, mitsui and the like and seen no performance difference vs. verbatim and sony disks (For the record I consider verbatim and Sony to be cheap media) . Besides I've never been in a "real" studio that went to guitar center to buy media.
The mastering houses you listed probably aren't using toast either but that doesn't make it wrong. For $3k just to master a record they should be top of the line the whole way and as Andy said they'll charge you $50-$100 for the disk anyway.
Aren't you the "multi-platinum status" guy from last month? You should chill out a little.

 

[metalkingdom]

ask a pro mastering studio for a CDR copy it'll be more like $100! Are you telling me an Apogee CD is better than a Sony or TDK?? Guess that pink logo must make a difference, I've never had a problem with a mastering plant because of this. I just do the usual thing of cheap crappy ones for listening copies, decent branded ones for masters, but I'd never burn a master at 16x.

Yes, a pro mastering house does overcharge for media - but it's a common practice for all commercial studios to do this. I always tell independent clients to bring their own CD's (and reels back in the "old" days), or else they're gonna have an inflated bill at the end of the night. I also give cheap CD's for listening copies, too. What brand do you use for masters? I used to use Quantegy, until they started peeling on me.

Apogee CD's are absolutely superior to consumer grade CDR's. From my understanding, it has to do with the type of adhesive that is used for the label. The label on cheap CD's can peel easily, rendering them useless - unless you know the magic marker trick. You can take a sharpie, preferably black, and "color" in the peel holes on a damaged CD that won't play. Usually it'll play for a little while, at least enough time for you to make another copy. I will say this though, TDK probably makes the best quality consumer level CDR. They certainly can take a lickin' and keep on tickin'.

I think that the 1x or 2x thing isn't as relevant as it used to be. I haven't burned a master at those speeds in nearly 3 years, and I've never had anything returned from the dupe facility. I usually just send the PT session to the mastering studio and let them deal with it. I'm sure that they burn in realtime, though.

 

[metalkingdom]

Besides I've never been in a "real" studio that went to guitar center to buy media.
Aren't you the "multi-platinum status" guy from last month? You should chill out a little.

That's funny, I was gonna tell you to chill out since you seem to have a habit of talking outta your a$$. I decided not to because that would be childish. But since you took it there...

You should also take a course in reading comprehension, because I never said anything about studios buying from Guitar Center. You stated that Apogee CDR's cost 10 times the norm, and I used GC as an example to dispell your statement. Besides, what's the difference between buying at Guitar Center or anywhere else? I've purchased over $250k worth of equipment from GC (Hollywood) for my clients over the last few years, and because of this I get nearly everything AT COST. Now what?

I mentioned my success as an engineer not to sound like some kinda wanker, but to let Andy know that there are other true professionals here that really admire his work. You seem to be the only one who didn't understand that.

 

[egan.]

You stated that Apogee CDR's cost 10 times the norm, and I used GC as an example to dispell your statement. Besides, what's the difference between buying at Guitar Center or anywhere else? I've purchased over $250k worth of equipment from GC (Hollywood) for my clients over the last few years, and because of this I get nearly everything AT COST. Now what?.

My point was that apogees are $2 a piece vs. $.20 - $.50 a piece for name brand consumer media. But let's not start a flame war here. All I'm trying to say is that your opinion isn't the only valid one. Or rather that you and those you consider on your level (Andy, James) aren't the only ones.
You are right....more power to you on your success. In all seriousness tho, I'd like to see you share your knowledge beyond arguements like these.

 

[Nitronium Blood]

ask a pro mastering studio for a CDR copy it'll be more like $100! Are you telling me an Apogee CD is better than a Sony or TDK?? Guess that pink logo must make a difference, I've never had a problem with a mastering plant because of this. I just do the usual thing of cheap crappy ones for listening copies, decent branded ones for masters, but I'd never burn a master at 16x.

What's going on man?

Recording at 44/16, using 'half-decent' CD-R brands?

 

[Andy Sneap]

hey Nitronium, where did I say I was recording at 16bit??

Look, what I'm saying is, although Apogee, TDK, Ritek whatever have superiour dyes etc, between the half decent/good ones, you have no way of knowing which ones work best with your particular drive unless you can do an error check or check with the manufacturer of your drive. And then you've got the issue of what drive they are reading from at the plant, how are you going to know that??
Use your common sense, burn at at the lowest speed (I can only do 4x on the superdrive and it's fine), like James said, if there a prob, the plant will get in touch, if youre really paranoid about the media, send 2, one on apogee, one on something else.

 

[Andy Sneap]

Hey Metalkingdom

Who's this then???

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

Hey Metalkingdom

Who's this then???

He's got yo back like a homie wid a gat!!

 

[Andy Sneap]

"It's all about the adhesive."

Yeah I usually find a plastic bag and a tin of evostick works great

 

[Andy Sneap]

hey anyone know if there's any software for mac OSX that will check error rate of a disc??

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

You could use a good ripping program like EAC, it'd tell you if there were errors in a report after it ripped the data.

Dunno if EAC is made for mac tho.