Andrei Tarkovsky

fates warning 666

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Aug 30, 2007
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As much a poet as a film-maker - in spirit at least - Tarkovsky is arguably alone in having created a body of cinematic works which can stand amongst the greats of literature. His films are dominated by images of astonishing beauty, meditatively manipulating time and space, laced with the hauntings of memory and nostalgia, the reality of dreams and dreams of reality, reflections upon the soul, eternal conflicts of man and the terrifying spiritual power of nature. There is a sense upon the viewing of a Tarkovsky film that he is providing a bridge between yourself and the divine.

My main inspiration for this thread is the fact that there are people on this board who would get much out of these films, and may not know them.

"Art is as a mountain: there is a peak and surrounding it there are foothills. What exists at the summit cannot by definition be understood by everyone."



"The world created by an artist is as complex as the world that surrounds him."



"Only one journey is possible: the journey within. We don't learn a whole lot from dashing about on the surface of the Earth. Neither do I believe that one travels so as to eventually return. Man can never reach back to the point of origin, because he has changed in the process. And of course we cannot escape from ourselves; what we are we carry with us. We carry with us the dwelling place of our soul, like the turtle carries its shell. A journey through all the countries of the world would be a mere symbolic journey. Whatever place one arrives at, it is still one's own soul that one is searching for."



"I am convinced that "time" in itself is no objective category, as "time" cannot exist apart from man's perception of it. We do not live in the "now." The "now" is so transient, as close to zero as you can get without it being zero, that we simply have no way of grasping it. The moment in time we call "now" immediately becomes the "past," and what we call the "future" becomes the "now" and then it immediately becomes "past." The only way to experience the now is if we let ourselves fall into the abyss which exists between the now and the future.

I think cinema is the only art that operates within the concept of temporality. Not because of its developing in time; there are also other art forms that do so: ballet, music, theatre. I mean `time' in he literal sense of the word. What is a take, from the moment we say `action' till the moment we say `stop'? It is the fixing of reality, the essence of time, a way of preserving time which allow to roll and unroll it forever. No other form of art can do that. Cinema is a mosaic made of time."



"A typical person is not able to express a universal view of the world. It's impossible for him to do so, his vision will always remain fragmentary. A poet is someone who can use a single image to send a universal message. A man passes another man by, he looks at him but he cannot see him. Another man will look at the same person and he will smile unexpectedly. The stranger has provoked an explosion of associations in him. It's similar with art. A poet takes a small fragment as a starting point and turns it into a coherent whole. Some consider this process boring. These are people who want to know about everything in minutest detail, like accountants or lawyers. But show a toe sticking out of a hole in a sock to a poet and it is enough to produce image of the whole world in him."


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ugh, he certainly talks like a poet (i.e., a sophist who doesn't claim to be smart)

"I am convinced that "time" in itself is no objective category, as "time" cannot exist apart from man's perception of it."

what? fuckin' what does he think man's perception, or man, or evolution, or atoms exist within if time is just an illusion of man's existence (like free-will)... how do you even reload a container ship if there is no time such that it is possible for two objects to occupy the same space since they are separated by time...
 
See, now this is why the Kant thread is imperative! ;)

However he might intend it, Tarkovsky's talk of "time" here (at least, how it's presented in English, it might be a translation?) is similar to Kant's conception, and those who are influenced by him. Kant says that "space" and "time" are not entities, nor are they meta-entities which hold everything like containers (we often speak of things being "in" space or time). Rather, space and time are the forms of intuition necessary for human experience, and we can't determine what they are, if anything, "in-themselves".

The other quotes show intelligence, which apparently some view as sophistry.
 
Rather, space and time are the forms of intuition necessary for human experience, and we can't determine what they are, if anything, "in-themselves".


Sure, if you want to go into extreme denial of epistemological externalism you can say that we can't really know that even our perception of existence relates to it the way it is, but the question to me is, does this mean it does not exist?---does the fact our eyes are so attuned as they are mean that purple does not exist? purple may be a relation dependent on our own properties to 'create' the experience of it, but call it what you will 'that which we see as purple' itself must exist to be able to perceived in whatever manner radically different to how it actually is.

Does Kant offer a replacement, some sort of account for how anything could exist without something that exists of which we have an intuition about called time and space? It just sounds to me like the old 'god did it' step back problem where the real question hasn't been addressed.
 
If the "Critique" thread takes shape, much of this will be cleared up.

To respond quickly to you, Seditious: Kant thinks that which is given through the senses and "worked on" by the faculties of the understanding is empirically real. There's a table, I touch it, I can measure its size, take a microscope to it, etc. This is empirically real. However, the manifold is transcendentally ideal. Meaning, when we attempt to abstract away from the conditions of human experience we are talking about idealized things, many of which Kant will call "transcendental illusions".

I know that isn't satisfactory, but you'll have to wait for the Kant thread.
 
However he might intend it, Tarkovsky's talk of "time" here (at least, how it's presented in English, it might be a translation?) is similar to Kant's conception, and those who are influenced by him. Kant says that "space" and "time" are not entities, nor are they meta-entities which hold everything like containers (we often speak of things being "in" space or time). Rather, space and time are the forms of intuition necessary for human experience, and we can't determine what they are, if anything, "in-themselves".

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I love tarkovsky.

I was just reading a physics-related article about this which said we should think about the concepts of space and time not in isolation but rather the very strange combination of spacetime. Most scientists agree that both space and time were created together at the moment of the Big Bang. Concepts like ‘before’ have no meaning when time doesn’t exist. The problem is that we have all got used to the idea of living in the three dimensions of space – left-right, up-down, forward-back – when in fact we should also include time in that list.
 
Most scientists agree that both space and time were created together at the moment of the Big Bang. Concepts like ‘before’ have no meaning when time doesn’t exist.

the concept of 'the big bang' really has no meaning when time doesn't exist in which it once hadn't yet happened and was just whatever it was---even if that was nothing and we got something for nothing---not being a big bang.

of course 'time as we know it' and 'space as it is in our universe' didn't exist then, there was no bang in space but a bang of space, but how do we make sense of the idea that such a thing as a difference between 'not yet existing' and 'existing' without time in which for that causation to occur?

shit reminds me of compatibilism---just a whole lot of words.
 
Mathematically for calculations it sometimes makes sense to refer to time as the 4th dimension but but it's really not the same (most notably you can't go back in time...) ... Spacetime means that time and space are not seperate entities like Newton assumed but are connected. The question if time is something that exists or a human construct that allows us to understand the universe is old... it just depends how you choose to define time. Stephen Hawking explains that in a brief history of time, if anyone's interested I can go over that.

Seditious - regarding the big bang... again to take Hawking's words (I don't know if it still holds now, the book was written a long time ago) - there is mathematical singularity at the moment of the big bang. The theory also assumes that an infinite amount of mass was centered in zero volume. Mathematics as we know it simply don't hold in the moment of the big bang. What happened before it - if something happened - is simply irrelevant..