Are you worried about Opeth???

[Till Fjalls]

Just wondering, I am wondering about their progression to their next album. Seeing as how the changes from MAYH to SL, to BWP were quite remarkable and distinct, and that much of BWP seemed to revolve around simpler and more standardized song structures.

Thiese structures are my concern. Look at a number of songs on BWP: Bleak, Harvest, The Draper Falls, Dirge For November. Not sounting Patterns in the Ivy(which isn't really a song anyway), we have over half of the album revolving around songs with mroe accesible musical structures (Ie: indentifiable verse/chorus/verse/chorus structures).

Do you think this may account for Opeth's sudden leap in Popularity with the release of BWP?? Does this more known structure make it more accessible?? Is the presence of such structures on BWP a sign that they will continue down this route even moreso in the future??

I certainly hope not, but it does seem like a good way (intentional or not) to get new listeners.

Oh yeah, and the songs seem to be getting less epic, and (gasp! ) shorter!

Thoughts?

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Yeah, i've noticed the sudden leap in popularity since blackwater, people other than myself actually know who they are.

Yeah, i'm a bit worried, because i don't like blackwater park (awesome riffs, but there is no structure, they are just strung together at the last minute, the songs go nowhere) that much.

I don't like Nevermore's Dead Heart in a dead world either. I am the biggest supporter of nevermore pre-DHIADW. POE and DNB are definately the best releases by any band In my eyes.

I guess time will tell wether Opeth will over simplify like nevermore has.

 

[Till Fjalls]

"...containing thoughts
that cannot be taken away or replaced"

\m/ \m/

 

[TyrantOfFlames]

Apparently I'm not the only one concerned about this. I still, to this day, haven't gotten into Blackwater Park. I have been trying to figure out why it doesn't seem as majestic as all the rest did. I also really liked the song structure in Morningrise, in which a riff almost never appeared a second time in a song. The overly chord-based riffs in Blackwater Park also make their sound a little less interesting, and more atmospheric instead. I certainly hope they hold onto their complexity. We shall see.

 

[Katatonic]

My view on it is this: Opeth will not change their music to suit the "popular" audience, but if they do decide to change their style, good for them. It is their choice,and they have given me so mucg musical enjoyment i dont really muind if they change now. Besides, we still have orchid morningreis, MAYH and SL anyway

 

[Katatonic]

That should be morningrise by the way

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Good to see i am not alone in my thoughts of Blackwater, i thought i'd get horribly burnt by someone.

I think that they could have split Blackwater park up into two albums with the amount of riffs that are wasted.

 

[S4R]

You guys have to chill out, cut Opeth some slack, they aren't Gods, they are human beings, sure BWP isn't their best work, but come on you cannot expect a band to make one amazing album after another, every band has their bump in the road, you people are over critical, and for the record I really enjoy BWP, and in case your thinkning of insulting me, I have been with Opeth since Orchid, so don't call me a newbie who doesn't know the true Opeth. Thats my two cents.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

oh, okay, in that case, i guess you still support metallica then?

 

[Katatonic]

for the record I really enjoy BWP, and in case your thinkning of insulting me, I have been with Opeth since Orchid, so don't call me a newbie who doesn't know the true Opeth.

For the record, I too enjoy BWP. I am not a newbie either (but not as far back as orchid)

 

[Till Fjalls]

Originally posted by Soul4Raziel
You guys have to chill out, cut Opeth some slack, they aren't Gods, they are human beings, sure BWP isn't their best work, but come on you cannot expect a band to make one amazing album after another, every band has their bump in the road, you people are over critical, and for the record I really enjoy BWP, and in case your thinkning of insulting me, I have been with Opeth since Orchid, so don't call me a newbie who doesn't know the true Opeth. Thats my two cents.

Hey man, nobody is overcritical if they feel that BWP isn't that great of an album. We're just stating facts about song structure, and how the changes aren't necessarily ones we are liking. And why would anyone insult you for Liking BWP?? That just be ridiculous man! I don't think we are the ones who need to chill out!

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Who was calling you a newbie dude? Who was insulting you? You have brought that element into this thread yourself. It was quite an intelligent question, and a few honest responses. UNTIL you came along.

If you aint got nothing to contribute, DON'T.

 

[TyrantOfFlames]

Originally posted by Soul4Raziel
You guys have to chill out, cut Opeth some slack, they aren't Gods, they are human beings, sure BWP isn't their best work, but come on you cannot expect a band to make one amazing album after another, every band has their bump in the road, you people are over critical, and for the record I really enjoy BWP, and in case your thinkning of insulting me, I have been with Opeth since Orchid, so don't call me a newbie who doesn't know the true Opeth. Thats my two cents.

There's your flak, Trapped.

Soul4Raziel: I never said I disliked BWP, I just think it has some shortcomings that can foreshadow something undesirable in my opinion. Feel free to like BWP. Besides, whatever happened to the freedom of speach we have previously praised on this site? Stay calm man, we aren't out to get you.

 

[Lina]

I have to agree with the first few posts on this thread.

Before BWP came out, I remember listening to that little clip of Drapery Falls on some website, and I was sooooo upset and worried because it definitely had a "normal" (i.e., boring) song structure -- verse, chorus, verse, chorus, etc. And the day I finally got the cd, I was tremendously disappointed. I thought it was the end of an era. The melodies didn't jump out at me, nothing grabbed me. I couldn't figure out why they would betray me like that, lol.

BUT as happens with all of us, the more I listened to it, the more I loved it, of course. I would still say that MAYH is my favorite album, but Drapery Falls and the song BWP are two of my all-time favorites.

But we can't deny that the structure of the album is more traditional. And based on practically every other metal band...they get softer and weaker and more commercial with time. So, yes, I'm worried.

BUT on the other hand, Mikael has said stuff in interviews indicating that he prides himself on NOT being like every other band, and that he thinks his music is more intelligent than most and that it requires a special kind of listener. Hopefully, he still feels this. And I can't imagine someone like him, so obviously driven by the music in his head, changing his style for something like money and prestige. Remember -- this is the band that didn't even show their faces in the beginning.

AAAGGGHHHH, I don't like to think about these things.

 

[S4R]

Originally posted by Trapped
oh, okay, in that case, i guess you still support metallica then?

What. The. Fuck. Exactly how does what I said merit that kind of response? Metallica's selling out was blatantly obvious, you cannot even compare the situation of Opeth and Metallica. I see my "chill out" comment doesn't apply to most of you, but it does apply to Trapped, settle down buddy.

 

[Pierced Spirit]

I got into Opeth only because of Benighted. I got it from napster, I had a slow connection and it was the shortest song with a cool title. I was blown away by this song. My friend told me some songs to d/l ranging from Orchid to BP. And I hated them. I hated Death metal vocals. When I got my cable modemn though I gave them a chance again and payed more attention to their music and I became hooked. I feel in love with Opeth. In my opinion theres songs have gotten in a sense "More Mature" I love those early CDs with songs full of riffs (Morningrise is my 2nd fave album) but I still love the current arrangements of their newer songs too. Besides it lets them have more riffs to create more and more songs instead of using a whole bunch of different ones in just one song.

 

[E V I L]

Blackwater Park is my favorite album, next to Morningrise. I think if you guys don't enjoy BP, then you have not learned to appreciate it.

Personally, I used to love Orchid a lot, but now I see it as Opeth's worst. And I personally hold stlll life to be the worst album next to Orchid.

Morningrise rules, mayh rules, and BP, oh yes, BP rules too.

All of the songs ROCK, and by the criteria of "forward momentum" it's the best album. I'm not one to use this word, but it has the greatest "oomph" about it.

Consider leper Affinity:

I consider leper a grand waltz of riffs that change colors and shade into each other as the mood of the song progresses in time.

It explodes with riffs that carry the lyrics stridently and violently forward, and as the song progresses, the riffs change and shift, not against each other as they might in Orchid, but with the continuum of the emotion and the lyrics of the song.

Few things are notable about leper. After the initial violence and progression of the lyrical delivery, the riffs "drain" into the first solo at about the 2:40 mark (absolutely rocking and my fav solo in the song) And it's like a moment of catharsis (release).

First repetition happens after this solo: the riffs that lead to the first solo are repeated and is punctuated by some variation before finding its way to the second solo, sharply slower in tempo. This leads to the "clean vocal section" of the song where the song "rests", as though it's recurperating. The accoustics here soon give way to a demonic riff (5:38) that augments to its spectacular crecendo and death at the 6:07 mark (the echo riff).

First "act" ends and "waltzes" into the the only true segway of the song.

(now getting lazy with the desciption) A few riffs are repeated (shorly) and in a circular and orderly fasion the riffs that "exploded and died" at the 6:07 mark return and preface another climax, this time driven by the vocals and the lyrics (mikael is screaming and then at the proper time, "drains" the tension with his much beloved "uuhhhhh!!!" at the 6:52 mark)

6:52 - to the end of the song composes the second and final strike in the song, and delivers the final stanza. Musically, it is a repetition of precisely the first and second riff, and the riff that appears after 6:07 mark, thus consistently repeating the significant riff of the previous section. This recurrence lasts for less than a minute before clashing into the chaotic and resolving riff that, sadly, closes the song and dissolves into the piano, and ah that piano, those scarred sounds of anger that sunsets into the oblivion.......

Originally posted by Trapped
Yeah, i'm a bit worried, because i don't like blackwater park (awesome riffs, but there is no structure, they are just strung together at the last minute, the songs go nowhere) that much.

 

[Sullen Jester]

Still, I prefer Orchid above all the others, and I find nothing wrong with Blackwater Park.

The first two tracks on BWP, I think are two of the greatest Opeth has made.

I can't really be bothered to go into detail here, but BWP is a great album, a big change for Opeth and different to the progression shown in the other albums, but great nonetheless..

=)

 

[S4R]

Originally posted by E V I L
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[Katatonic]

Blackwater Park is my favorite album, next to Morningrise. I think if you guys don't enjoy BP, then you have not learned to appreciate it.

Personally, I used to love Orchid a lot, but now I see it as Opeth's worst. And I personally hold stlll life to be the worst album next to Orchid.

Morningrise rules, mayh rules, and BP, oh yes, BP rules too.

i totally agree. i have to say orchid has the best lyrics of all the albums (emotional and cool) but the guitars and vocals kinda let it down a bit. i do love BWP, morningrise and mayh. Still life has a few great songs (face of melinda, the moor to say the least), but i rate these other three above SL and orchid. I think these three albums marked a transition period of opeth, using new styles and experimenting, whereas still life continued on with the mayh style.

Dont get me wrong, i love opeth and EVERYTHING theyve done, its just i dont like some of their stuff as much as other stuff (if u get what i mean)