Calling all professional monitor engineers.. HELP!

[pikachu69]

Hey Guys,

I have been doing FOH sound for a long time, mostly small to medium sized gigs with a few bigger ones here or there. Heres the thing...

I have just been asked to join New Zealand's biggest reggae band as their monitor engineer/stage hand on their world tour!!!!!!!! Nearly a whole years worth of touring, so far 24 states in the USA confirmed, Japan, Australia and Europe (so far!) By far my biggest gig yet.

My question though is this.. They hired me based on my FOH skills but I have never been a monitor engineer before. Is it any different to mixing FOH other than the obvious that its just the band I am mixing for? Any special techniques or pit falls I should be aware of that I would not have learned doing FOH?
Any help will be really appreciated as it kicks off in a month or so and I am getting nervous as shit.
Cheers,
Nigel.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

Congrats man, that's awesome! Can't give any advice, but I'm sure Brian/arv_foh and Egan will be in shortly

 

[arv_foh]

Well, they're really 2 completely different worlds...

The single and most important thing I can tell you would be to flatten the monitor graphs at every venue, crank the vocal mics, and ring out the monitors before every show. Feedback will get you fired pretty quick, I would imagine. Maybe work off the graphs they have, see how they sound and adjust accordingly if you don't want to start from scratch.

Is the tour carrying their own vocal mics? If so you will probably become accustomed pretty quickly to what frequencies are problematic. If you have different mics every night though that is going to make your job more difficult.

I engineer a lot of reggae shows and they usually like pretty simple monitor mixes... instruments in respective wedges and LOUD vocals across the entire stage. The only thing is sometimes Jamaican people are EXTREMELY hard to understand, sometimes it doesn't even sound like English to me

If you have an iPhone, download RTA to help you identify frequencies faster if you're not good at telling by ear.

What band is it? I'm guessing you will come through my venue on your tour. Good luck

 

[pikachu69]

Well, they're really 2 completely different worlds...

The single and most important thing I can tell you would be to flatten the monitor graphs at every venue, crank the vocal mics, and ring out the monitors before every show. Feedback will get you fired pretty quick, I would imagine. Maybe work off the graphs they have, see how they sound and adjust accordingly if you don't want to start from scratch.

Is the tour carrying their own vocal mics? If so you will probably become accustomed pretty quickly to what frequencies are problematic. If you have different mics every night though that is going to make your job more difficult.

I engineer a lot of reggae shows and they usually like pretty simple monitor mixes... instruments in respective wedges and LOUD vocals across the entire stage. The only thing is sometimes Jamaican people are EXTREMELY hard to understand, sometimes it doesn't even sound like English to me

If you have an iPhone, download RTA to help you identify frequencies faster if you're not good at telling by ear.

What band is it? I'm guessing you will come through my venue on your tour. Good luck

Thanks for the reply, that helped alot thanks. For the nationwide tour it will be the same mics gear etc, but overseas will be different gear almost every show ranging from small clubs through to LARGE out door festivals.
Any particular gear I should read up on that is industry standard for this kind of work?

The band is called 'House Of Shem'

Here is a link to the bands web site.

http://www.houseofshem.com/

What is the name of your venue I will look out for it and let you know if I will be passing through, that would be cool.

They are all New Zealanders but in NZ, reggae has a cult following unlike any other country other than Jamaica of course. It is considered a way of life for many of the local Maori people here in NZ, and these guys are no exception.
Their latest album was recorded and mixed by Errol Brown (Bob Marley's engineer) and mastered at Sterling Sound.

Any other advice will be greatly received thanks guys.

Cheers.

 

[Trevoire520]

Eliminating feedback is your number one concern here. Google "simple feedback trainer" download it and practice like fuck. You'll be glad you did.

Generally putting as little as possible into the monitors helps to keep things clear. Nothing annoys me more than drummers who ask for loads of drums in the monitor and then complain they cant hear the guitars. If you're sitting at a kit and can't hear what you're playing then frankly you're not hitting hard enough. Though I guess this might be different for a Reggae band.

Communication is really important as a monitor engineer. Be friendly with the band and your life will be easier. Sometimes you can tell that somethings wrong with someones monitor mix just by their facial expressions. If you can pick up on this you might be able to make corrections before the musician has even asked for it.

 

[ChrisTanakaCanwell]

Less is more. The more open mics/overall volume you have on stage, the harder it's going to be to make everyone happy without feedback issues. Keep overheads, percussion, snare/toms, hh mic, etc out of the monitors unless they specifically ask for them. Leave enough room for vocals because you're usually going to need to get those as loud as you possibly can.

And yeah, hang out with the band a bit so you can become familiar with their accents/slang The good thing about Jamaican bands is they're usually really nice and keep their cool if you're having technical difficulties!


Somewhat OT: Arv, how do you go about ringing out monitors if it's just you and the band? It seems like you're either stuck cupping the mic yourself and guessing the frequency, or having a band member do it while you're operating the graphic and pissing them off if the feedback gets out of control and they're not wearing protection.

 

[Charlie E.]

Communication! Some artists for some reason get shy sometimes (even when they're unhappy) so be sure to keep asking them if everything is cool.
Feedback and vocalists not being able to hear themselves is usually the biggest problem/obstacle.
There is already some great advice on here.
Sometimes the settings are less than ideal and sometimes you have singers with soft voices who stand next to hard hitting drummers.
Wish you the best.

 

[arv_foh]

Less is more. The more open mics/overall volume you have on stage, the harder it's going to be to make everyone happy without feedback issues. Keep overheads, percussion, snare/toms, hh mic, etc out of the monitors unless they specifically ask for them. Leave enough room for vocals because you're usually going to need to get those as loud as you possibly can.

And yeah, hang out with the band a bit so you can become familiar with their accents/slang The good thing about Jamaican bands is they're usually really nice and keep their cool if you're having technical difficulties!


Somewhat OT: Arv, how do you go about ringing out monitors if it's just you and the band? It seems like you're either stuck cupping the mic yourself and guessing the frequency, or having a band member do it while you're operating the graphic and pissing them off if the feedback gets out of control and they're not wearing protection.

Reggae drummers usually do ask for HH. I usually high pass them at like 400 and that keeps feedback issues to a minimum. If you don't do that they will pick up everything and you'll have problems.

When I'm by myself, I grab a 58, crank the send, walk to the monitor, then swipe in front of the horn and driver. Walk back to the graphic and pull out the frequency. Walk back to the mons, make sure feedback is gone, if it is mute the mix and move on to the next one. I always do each mix individually. Sometimes it's hard to tell where the feedback is coming from if you have all the mixes unmuted on the stage. I've been doing it long enough to where most of the time I can pull the offending frequency out on the first try.

Eliminating feedback is your number one concern here. Google "simple feedback trainer" download it and practice like fuck. You'll be glad you did.

Generally putting as little as possible into the monitors helps to keep things clear. Nothing annoys me more than drummers who ask for loads of drums in the monitor and then complain they cant hear the guitars. If you're sitting at a kit and can't hear what you're playing then frankly you're not hitting hard enough. Though I guess this might be different for a Reggae band.

His job as the touring MONS engineer is to make the band happy though.. this isn't the same as a house monitor gig. If the drummer wants loads of guitar with loud drums in the wedge, that's his job to give him that. If he doesn't he will be fired and replaced.

I agree that Simple Feedback Trainer will be good for practice. Learn those frequencies! It will make your job as a MONS engineer a million times easier.

 

[pikachu69]

Amazing advice here guys thank you so much. I will be checking out that trainer immediately after I finish typing.
Did any of you check out the bands web page? the first track on the playlist is a good example but they now have a 3 piece horn section replacing pre recorded samples via an MPC. Be interested to know what you think of them.

Cheers and thanks once again, and.... keep the love coming

 

[Charlie E.]

Arv does your ringing method usually help even if the singers use their own mics?
I kinda wish I could do that with their mics but in my case they generally show up about 5-10min before they start.
I guess it's still a good starting point?

 

[egan.]

There is a ton of good info here. Monitors are funny b/c in a lot of ways you are far more accountable for your mixes than FOH.
Ringing out is definitely key. I personally like to set up all of the vocal mics and ring out the wedges one at a time with all of them open. I just ride up the fader from the board and pull shit as it goes. Obviously then I'll go listen and do a swipe test if I know the mics coming off the stand. Then I'll go listen again and often compromise a little gain before feedback to get them to sound nice if I have to.
On a tour it's great if you can actually go listen to the wedge a bit after soundcheck so you can get a feel for the volume and tone each musician likes from their wedge. The cue can give you an idea but it just isn't the same and ultimately the better you know what your client wants, the easier it is to give it to them.

 

[ahjteam]

Yup, when I was starting out on live I started on monitor mixing for the good first 400 gigs.

- Ring out the monitors, If you are alone, you can set a SM58 at a stand next at the monitor and use another 58 at the monitor desk with same gain and speak to it and send that to the monitor loud enough so you get feedback. Then take out the feedbacking frequencies with the graphic EQ. PS: I highly suggest that if you are using the same backline all the time, take a piece of electric or masking tape and mark the frequencies that usually are feeding back
- Highpass everything. EVERYTHING.
- bands usually want vocals loud as fuck, and reggae bands also want the hihat really loud for some reason

 

[arv_foh]

Arv does your ringing method usually help even if the singers use their own mics?
I kinda wish I could do that with their mics but in my case they generally show up about 5-10min before they start.
I guess it's still a good starting point?

Yeah it's for sure a good starting point, if the singer is using their own mic I will do a quick swipe test after everything is ready to go during set change. If there are any issues I usually pull out the frequencies on the strip not the graphic so my graphs don't get hacked up to shit.

 

[pikachu69]

In my case, all mics will be left in their stands at all times as the singer/s all play an instrument at the same time. Would I right in assuming that 'swiping' the mic in front of the monitor to ring it out is not necessary as this is not replicating something that is likely to happen live and therefore I will be cutting unnecessary frequencies? We are talking a 10 piece band here buy the way.

 

[arv_foh]

You could just crank them up and check each one individually and make sure they don't feed back, probably not necessary to swipe since the mic is never gonna be there. Another thing to do is make your mouth into an "O" shape then then go from about 6 inches back to directly on the mic and make sure that doesn't cause feedback. I know that sounds weird but it works

 

[burst]

Don't forget to put some decent monitors on your tech raider!
If you manage to get you some L'Acoustics HiQ's every night, then this tour shall be like a vacation for you. When amped by LA-8's, those bad boys don't need almost any tuning while peaking at 130+ db SPL. Best monitors EVAR It's always pisses off FOH guys when monitors sound better then mains.

Plus make a file for your console (you're using digital, right?) and send it to venue prior to your show, that'll help local guys to set everything properly.
And save your graphic EQ's for different monitors in your console's preset library, so you'll have no problems next time you stumble into them.

Also, if you have brass section, compress them heavily, usually this helps me to get in the "set and forget" zone really quick.

You're the man! Have fun on the tour.

 

[joelplagues]

Basically what arv has said is gospel.

My only note and seriously think about it.

Every member will ask for stuff and over the course of the show they will keep asking more of "A", more of "B", more of "d" and then back to more of "A". eventually pushing more and more through the foldbock or it will all start to become even and that one instrument they wanted to hear is no longer anywhere.

ask the musician and yourself. what could you loose abit of to make this better? not "what do you want more of?" what can be taken away a little to accomodate their needs a little better. sometimes pulling one thing back that they thought they needed can make a huge difference. It's like mixing most guys will keep pushing things up and never pull anything down to make something fit. give it a try. it's worked for me.

most the time musicians are just guessing and saying give me more of "B" they dont know what they want hence the reason for clouding up their monitor with everything they don't need.

another note.
make sure you get your own listen wedge!
seriously. some places don't have one.

Don't just push faders or turn pots thinking it's making a difference. listen to it yourself. because the artist could actually be right(who would have thought) maybe your fader move did jack shit to their mix, so have a listen yourself.

 

[Sloan]

Definitely work on communication, come up with some hand signals that everyone understands and work on getting to know exactly what each performer wants in their monitor. I hate doing monitors where the band doesn't communicate worth a shit, then they say it sounded bad. Clear communication is #1.

 

[pikachu69]

This stuff is gold thanks so very much to all.
I am an experienced FOH engineer I don't want to sound like I am not with this noobish question in the OP. Its just that this is the biggest gig I have ever had and it is putting me into the international scene so obviously I am nervous as fuck and don't want to mess it up lol. I am looking forward to travelling the world and I will post some dates and venues when I get them all and if one is in your area let me know so we can catch up for a beer.
I will also need someone to 'hook me up' when im away lol so, yeah.

At this point we are not travelling with the gear as most gigs will be festivals etc so all FOH/monitoring etc will be supplied and therefore different every gig.
I would love to use a digital desk for the whole tour as it would make like so much easier. The Yamaha LS9 being one of my favorites. But I doubt I will be that lucky in most places I go so a manual setup every gig it is. Old school styles lol.

 

[Sloan]

I don't blame you, using different gear every show scares the shit out of me!