Can terrorism and religious fanaticism ever be stopped?

[Kourosh]

When Tom Friedman, who wrote From Beirut to Jerusalem, asked the then ruler of Algeria about the relationship between the failure of the state and Islamic fanaticism, he told Tom, "the failure of the state was not caused by Islamic fanaticism. It caused Islamic fanaticism." With this in mind, what do you think about the nature of terrorism and religious fanaticism?

 

[MetalManCPA]

Yeah - but only with a fresh start

 

[Satori]

People are generally pretty stupid at this point in our continued evolution.

People are generally very intellectually one-dimensional and are too wrapped up in their particular interpretations about reality to have even the slightest clue that most of what they think and see orgininated in their own minds.

People have tendencies toward aggression and civil war.

People have the urge to fabricate complex and rhetorical mythology to explain the universe in personified terms (this spawns from and feeds the individuals overwhelming sense of self-importance).

People have the urge to rally others toward a cause and they'll do whatever it takes to achieve this.

People love to play "follow the leader".


Religion and war will be with us for a very long time for these reasons but eventually I think they will both be abandoned in favour of better ways of doing things. It'll just take a while, unfortunately.

But what do you expect from a bunch of half-witted and egocentric primates? Lowering one's expectations goes a long way in preventing disappointment and dispair.

Satori

 

[Kushantaiidan]

Originally posted by Satori
People are generally pretty stupid at this point in our continued evolution.

People are generally very intellectually one-dimensional and are too wrapped up in their particular interpretations about reality to have even the slightest clue that most of what they think and see orgininated in their own minds.

People have tendencies toward aggression and civil war.

People have the urge to fabricate complex and rhetorical mythology to explain the universe in personified terms (this spawns from and feeds the individuals overwhelming sense of self-importance).

People have the urge to rally others toward a cause and they'll do whatever it takes to achieve this.

People love to play "follow the leader".


Religion and war will be with us for a very long time for these reasons but eventually I think they will both be abandoned in favour of better ways of doing things. It'll just take a while, unfortunately.

But what do you expect from a bunch of half-witted and egocentric primates? Lowering one's expectations goes a long way in preventing disappointment and dispair.

Satori

Damn it, I was gonna say that! Well said sir.

 

[FleischBrenner]

Originally posted by Satori
People are generally pretty stupid at this point in our continued evolution.

People are generally very intellectually one-dimensional and are too wrapped up in their particular interpretations about reality to have even the slightest clue that most of what they think and see orgininated in their own minds.

People have tendencies toward aggression and civil war.

People have the urge to fabricate complex and rhetorical mythology to explain the universe in personified terms (this spawns from and feeds the individuals overwhelming sense of self-importance).

People have the urge to rally others toward a cause and they'll do whatever it takes to achieve this.

People love to play "follow the leader".


Religion and war will be with us for a very long time for these reasons but eventually I think they will both be abandoned in favour of better ways of doing things. It'll just take a while, unfortunately.

But what do you expect from a bunch of half-witted and egocentric primates? Lowering one's expectations goes a long way in preventing disappointment and dispair.

Satori

I wish I shared your optimism.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Yes, but only if people stop being sheep and following crazy religions. (...all religion is crazy in my eyes, but i understand that some people need something to beleive in...!).

The problem will be phased out... if we phase out the cause... religion...

 

[Opet]

"Yes, but only if people stop being sheep and following crazy religions."

So...........No. Never!

 

[Rusty]

i think this is a bit deep for a music forum.

 

[Russell]

Originally posted by Satori
People are generally very intellectually one-dimensional and are too wrapped up in their particular interpretations about reality to have even the slightest clue that most of what they think and see orgininated in their own minds.

Surely this applies just as much to you as it does to everyone else?

Neway I think there will always be people who need religion as something to lean on, so no matter however hard we tried we couldn't get rid of religion. Then comes the problem, where do you draw the line between fanaticism and normal beliefs etc. Basically I think this issue is too complicated to deal with in this way. If someone tried tyhe fanatics would be driven more underground, and take more drastic action... so in short no

 

[Russell]

Originally posted by rustymetal
i think this is a bit deep for a music forum.

You obviously haven't read some of the other threads that go on here

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by godisanathiest
Surely this applies just as much to you as it does to everyone else?

I will go out on a limb here and say yes (of course), however, there is a difference. I am aware that my thoughts are subjective crap, therefore I don't place such absolute value and truth in them, and certainly not to the point where'd I actually go against the generally accepted flow of ethics. I would not, for example, give my life to kill innocent people.

So in that sense, I don't think it applies to me as much as to *some* people.

You love to play devil's advocate eh? heheh

Satori

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Trapped
Yes, but only if people stop being sheep and following crazy religions. (...all religion is crazy in my eyes, but i understand that some people need something to beleive in...!).

The problem will be phased out... if we phase out the cause... religion...

Let's clarify something: Religion isn't the *cause*, it's a tool which has been historically used to facilitate war and atrocities.

Religion is dangerous in the same sense that guns are dangerous.

Guns don't kill people, people do, guns just make it easier and more likely to happen. Likewise..
Religion doesn't cause war, people do, religion just makes it easier and more likely to happen.

We would would still have murder without guns, just fewer of them.
We would still have war without religion, just fewer of them.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

In my opinion, people don't NEED "something to believe in", they just THINK they do cuz that's how they were raised to think. I've never met someone who was raised without the guise of religion who needed something to believe in. The religious are just told that they are and must forever remain dependent on religion when they are kids (like sheep) and by the time they are adults that can't live with out it, it becomes like an addiction, and in some severe cases I've seen, a psychosis. The idea that religion is a necessity for happiness is just more of the mind-fucking. It's a crutch for a leg that isn't actually broken, but the person is so intent on leaning on the crutch that they forget they even have a leg to stand on. These are the "followers" I referred to earlier, and it's a very dangerous state of mind. For example, if some evil christian ruler decided he wanted to wipe out muslims in north america or the more civil parts of europe I'm *positive* he'd have no trouble rounding many many idiots who would kill and die for his cause. Nothing can twist the mind or blur sensibilities like religion can, it's the ultimate political tool and therefore infinitely powerful.

Satori

PS: If I have offended you in this post, then please let me antagonize you further by saying this: wake the hell up, the time has come to face reality for what it is. If you are living in a mythological fantasy world, you are part of the problem whether you think so or not.

 

[Russell]

Originally posted by Satori
I will go out on a limb here and say yes (of course), however, there is a difference. I am aware that my thoughts are subjective crap, therefore I don't place such absolute value and truth in them, and certainly not to the point where'd I actually go against the generally accepted flow of ethics. I would not, for example, give my life to kill innocent people

Therefore by this reasoning they are just as valid (or not as the case may be) as everyone elses? I think most people wouldn't go against the accepted flow of ethics or kill people for their beliefs/thought etc. (unfortunately a few do)

People are generally very intellectually one-dimensional and are too wrapped up in their particular interpretations about reality to have even the slightest clue that most of what they think and see orgininated in their own minds.

Another point here is that surely what you think and see originated in your own mind, and as its subjective surely you can't say this about other people as its just ur view of them (tho we both know its largely true)

You love to play devil's advocate eh? heheh
Satori

Of course I do Its what makes it fun. Quite often in these discussions I argue for a side I don't believe in (or in this case I agree with u, I'm just annoyingly argumentative ). Partly cos its fun and partly cos I think it teaches you to be more objective

 

[_Transparent_]

why argue, the answer is no. as long as we have money, nothing good is possible. money is the reason for everything, lets do what they done in Fight Club, that may help.

 

[S4R]

Originally posted by Satori
People are generally pretty stupid at this point in our continued evolution.

People are generally very intellectually one-dimensional and are too wrapped up in their particular interpretations about reality to have even the slightest clue that most of what they think and see orgininated in their own minds.

People have tendencies toward aggression and civil war.

People have the urge to fabricate complex and rhetorical mythology to explain the universe in personified terms (this spawns from and feeds the individuals overwhelming sense of self-importance).

People have the urge to rally others toward a cause and they'll do whatever it takes to achieve this.

People love to play "follow the leader".


Religion and war will be with us for a very long time for these reasons but eventually I think they will both be abandoned in favour of better ways of doing things. It'll just take a while, unfortunately.

But what do you expect from a bunch of half-witted and egocentric primates? Lowering one's expectations goes a long way in preventing disappointment and dispair.

Satori

I believe that evolution in giving us are vast intelligence has sacrificed the portion of our brain that helps mental stability.

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by Kourosh
When Tom Friedman, who wrote From Beirut to Jerusalem, asked the then ruler of Algeria about the relationship between the failure of the state and Islamic fanaticism, he told Tom, "the failure of the state was not caused by Islamic fanaticism. It caused Islamic fanaticism." With this in mind, what do you think about the nature of terrorism and religious fanaticism?

Interesting quote.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by Soul4Raziel
I believe that evolution in giving us are vast intelligence has sacrificed the portion of our brain that helps mental stability.

Exactly! How zen of you to say that.

Intelligence leads to hightened self-awareness (ego) which leads to psychological suffering. If we were stupid, we'd be more fulfilled and less problematic.