Check the production on our new song!

[jsaudio]

Hey guys,

This is a new song my band The Room Colored Charlatan just released through Subliminal Groove Records
I did all the production myself let me know what you think or if you have any questions about it, put a solid amount of time into it!

If you dig it pick it up on our bandcamp!

https://theroomcoloredcharlatan.bandcamp.com/track/introspection

 

[jsaudio]

Here is the Video from Youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC7brXPLD2Y

 

[AscentToZenith]

I think it sounds great. But damn I hate this forum. I hate seeing posts like these just get disregarded. This whole forum subforum gets disregarded, it annoys me when trying to get feedback. Rant aside, I really like it. Sounds pretty professional. Mix sounds good on my headphones. I can't say anything bad about it. Better than my music lol. Keep up the good work.

 

[jsaudio]

Hey thank you for giving it a listen and providing your feedback, I also remember when I joined this forum a few years ago when I just started producing people got alot of helpful and insightful feedback but lately it does seem much less.
However I am also to blame for this as I haven't contributed to helping in many posts recently either so I am just as much to blame time to change that!

 

[L. Bliss]

I see what you guys were going for and you completely succeeded at getting that sound. It's music and production styles that have been dominant in Metal for over a decade. There's really not a lot of feedback or constructive criticism one can give your work because you've clearly achieved what you set out to do. The only thing I can say is what I'd like for it to be more in line with my own preferences, which shouldn't matter much to a band unless they're interested in crafting different mixes for different markets. That's something I want to do with bands once I get a better handle on some of the plugins I've invested in and start working. If I'm a customer at Best Buy and I can choose to either purchase a cd for $15 or a whole movie series on Blu Ray for the same price, why in 2015 would I want to buy the cd? Especially if it only features one mix/master. Blu Rays often feature several audio tracks, even just for English.

My own preference is for Metal to sound like it did in the 80s and to a lesser extent the 90s, more dynamic and strong character. I could get into a lot of specifics about how I don't like the squashed L2 sounds so many albums use, or drum samples, etc, etc. How to get these older sounds with plugins, I have no idea. A lot of it probably has to do with how it was tracked.

The Chris Lord Alge Sig Series plugins have some great character effects for all instruments and vocals. Can't say I've found a lot else that is similar to hardware I've used like Digitech and TC Helicon vocal processors. Have you checked out Imperial Delay? It seems really versatile but is a lot harder to use than my hardware delays. Right now the CLA sig series is onsale for $110-$120 for a couple more days at audiodeluxe and pluginboutique. Character stuff is where plugins seem to not have a lot of great options. The CLA stuff really excels at character driven presets more than anything else out there, but there still room for a lot of growth. Nomad Factory is another one you might wanna check out. Magnetic II and Cosmos are real underrated as is Masterverb from Wave Arts.

I'm definitely curious what kinda gear and software you used if you want to talk about it.

Great job again at getting your sound right and good luck with it all.

 

[jsaudio]

I see what you guys were going for and you completely succeeded at getting that sound. It's music and production styles that have been dominant in Metal for over a decade. There's really not a lot of feedback or constructive criticism one can give your work because you've clearly achieved what you set out to do. The only thing I can say is what I'd like for it to be more in line with my own preferences, which shouldn't matter much to a band unless they're interested in crafting different mixes for different markets. That's something I want to do with bands once I get a better handle on some of the plugins I've invested in and start working. If I'm a customer at Best Buy and I can choose to either purchase a cd for $15 or a whole movie series on Blu Ray for the same price, why in 2015 would I want to buy the cd? Especially if it only features one mix/master. Blu Rays often feature several audio tracks, even just for English.

My own preference is for Metal to sound like it did in the 80s and to a lesser extent the 90s, more dynamic and strong character. I could get into a lot of specifics about how I don't like the squashed L2 sounds so many albums use, or drum samples, etc, etc. How to get these older sounds with plugins, I have no idea. A lot of it probably has to do with how it was tracked.

The Chris Lord Alge Sig Series plugins have some great character effects for all instruments and vocals. Can't say I've found a lot else that is similar to hardware I've used like Digitech and TC Helicon vocal processors. Have you checked out Imperial Delay? It seems really versatile but is a lot harder to use than my hardware delays. Right now the CLA sig series is onsale for $110-$120 for a couple more days at audiodeluxe and pluginboutique. Character stuff is where plugins seem to not have a lot of great options. The CLA stuff really excels at character driven presets more than anything else out there, but there still room for a lot of growth. Nomad Factory is another one you might wanna check out. Magnetic II and Cosmos are real underrated as is Masterverb from Wave Arts.

I'm definitely curious what kinda gear and software you used if you want to talk about it.

Great job again at getting your sound right and good luck with it all.

Thanks man, I can undertand the taste preference thanks for not letting that get in the way of objective observation of the track, that takes a keen ear and intellect as many can not seem to separate the 2! In Terms of gear I actaully went pretty simple and in box with this. For Guitars and bass I used pod farm for both came out surprisingly well, however i did not quite achieve the guitar cut and clarity I am hoping for on future releases this year. SO i am currently workingon that. Drums are a combination of things from all over the place.

 

[HugoRibeiroDotCom]

Killer!!!

 

[L. Bliss]

Here's the latest bounced mix file I did for Burning Bridges by Dark Ride

http://discussion.cambridge-mt.com/showthread.php?tid=8604

These guys were really influenced by modern stuff like Killswitch from what the guitarist stated in the forum for that song. Thought I'd post that here just in case you were curious what I would do with a modern song. The re-amping of the one guitar track was interesting. Worked better than I thought. I wouldn't say this is my ideal sound, just the closest I could achieve with what I had to work with. Ideally I'd be able to get production elements from stuff like Painkiller, Ride the Lightning, Black Album, Morbid Angel Domination, Death Symbolic, Dusk and her Embrace, Peace Sells, Something Wicked, Colony, Defenders, Somewhere in Time, stuff like that.

I would say to try some demos for Fabfilter ProQ2, the CLA stuff, Wave arts masterverb, some of the IK Multimedia T Racks, Magnetic II, and the Exponential Audio Excalibur when it becomes available. audiodeluxe sells some stuff real cheap. I got the Lexicon MPX reverb there for like $36 and it's right up there with the Lex PCM that was going for $1500 a few years ago. Quiet Arts Wave rider is awesome. You just set some parameters for volume automation, listen to the track, and when it sounds the way you want, set your automation to write mode and it writes all the automation for you. Then you just remove wave rider. Saves tones of time. I think it's a Pro Tools exclusive. Speaking of which, I find PT a lot easier to work with than Reaper or Studio One. You can often find PT 11 licenses from this eyeball 123 seller who seems to be legit for like $250. I think it's a little over $300 on audiodeluxe or amazon 3rd party sellers. Some of those amazon sellers include a usb interface too.

Revoice Pro 3 can be a lifesaver if you have a lot of vocals that need to be aligned. It can adjust pitch, timing, and some other parameters for alignment. RVP 3 also generates backing vocals from scratch based on a guide vocal, and to my ears they sound exact-meaning that it sounds just like the guide vocal but with the changes specified so that it is different enough to blend. Usually it's like $600 but audiodeluxe sells it for $349 once you add it to the cart last I checked.

Did you use one of the big limiters on your track like the L2, Xenon, Pro-L, or Ozone?

 

[TheIllusionist]

This sounds great. Really good job on it

 

[Bay Studio]

I think it doesn´t sound bad! Only thing that throws me off are the clean vocals. They´re really loud compared to everything else in the mix and maybe that´s just my ears after a long day but, i believe there are some notes that aren´t sitting well. Anyways, great job on it - well tracked, and i like the low end in the mix.

 

[jsaudio]

Here's the latest bounced mix file I did for Burning Bridges by Dark Ride

http://discussion.cambridge-mt.com/showthread.php?tid=8604

These guys were really influenced by modern stuff like Killswitch from what the guitarist stated in the forum for that song. Thought I'd post that here just in case you were curious what I would do with a modern song. The re-amping of the one guitar track was interesting. Worked better than I thought. I wouldn't say this is my ideal sound, just the closest I could achieve with what I had to work with. Ideally I'd be able to get production elements from stuff like Painkiller, Ride the Lightning, Black Album, Morbid Angel Domination, Death Symbolic, Dusk and her Embrace, Peace Sells, Something Wicked, Colony, Defenders, Somewhere in Time, stuff like that.

I would say to try some demos for Fabfilter ProQ2, the CLA stuff, Wave arts masterverb, some of the IK Multimedia T Racks, Magnetic II, and the Exponential Audio Excalibur when it becomes available. audiodeluxe sells some stuff real cheap. I got the Lexicon MPX reverb there for like $36 and it's right up there with the Lex PCM that was going for $1500 a few years ago. Quiet Arts Wave rider is awesome. You just set some parameters for volume automation, listen to the track, and when it sounds the way you want, set your automation to write mode and it writes all the automation for you. Then you just remove wave rider. Saves tones of time. I think it's a Pro Tools exclusive. Speaking of which, I find PT a lot easier to work with than Reaper or Studio One. You can often find PT 11 licenses from this eyeball 123 seller who seems to be legit for like $250. I think it's a little over $300 on audiodeluxe or amazon 3rd party sellers. Some of those amazon sellers include a usb interface too.

Revoice Pro 3 can be a lifesaver if you have a lot of vocals that need to be aligned. It can adjust pitch, timing, and some other parameters for alignment. RVP 3 also generates backing vocals from scratch based on a guide vocal, and to my ears they sound exact-meaning that it sounds just like the guide vocal but with the changes specified so that it is different enough to blend. Usually it's like $600 but audiodeluxe sells it for $349 once you add it to the cart last I checked.

Did you use one of the big limiters on your track like the L2, Xenon, Pro-L, or Ozone?

Hey man thanks, I used Gclip and L2 as limiters on the 2buss and i also used Ozone but ONLY for broad eq on the master

 

[jsaudio]

I think it doesn´t sound bad! Only thing that throws me off are the clean vocals. They´re really loud compared to everything else in the mix and maybe that´s just my ears after a long day but, i believe there are some notes that aren´t sitting well. Anyways, great job on it - well tracked, and i like the low end in the mix.

The only thing i have noticed is the softer vocal parts seem a little louder than the parts where he is actually singing with alot of volume i compressed the hell out of the vocals maybe that is why

 

[Christian WUFU]

The only thing i have noticed is the softer vocal parts seem a little louder than the parts where he is actually singing with alot of volume i compressed the hell out of the vocals maybe that is why

I have to agree with Bay Studio. When the singing kicked in it felt like I was listening to a new song entirely. I know it's too late now, but next time I'd suggest playing around with reverb and delay sends some more to push them back in the mix without losing clarity. As they are, they feel out of context with the rest of the mix.

The only other criticism I have is that I'd like some more low mids in the mix. It feels a little hollow in that area compared to most commercial mixes in the same genre.

 

[jsaudio]

Ill def take this into consideration when mixing songs for the album this was just released as a single. But this is the first time I have recorded a singer for us so it's kind of a learning process.

I looked and the singing vocals are actually set a bit quieter than the screaming vocals.
Do you guys think singing vocals have a perceived loudness compared to screams?

 

[Christian WUFU]

More than likely. But it definitely does feel like a legitimate difference in level, not just perceived level. Are you judging from your DAW's meters? Those aren't very dependable.

 

[jsaudio]

Yes but also both screaming and singing vocals have the exact same compression settings and they are smashed to hell so theoretically it should be extremely even...this is good info to know though guys thanks

 

[Christian WUFU]

That means nothing given that they are two entirely different performances. Also, I know I'm not alone in feeling that I would never use the same compression settings on a screamed/growled vocal as I would a sung vocal. Can it work? Yes, of course. But I do think that it's best to treat a normal singing performance different from one that is inherently more aggressive.

the super hyped up compression that I assume you have going on is likely exaggerating the timbre of the singing that is present in the midrange and upper-midrange.

 

[L. Bliss]

I don't know that it feels like two different songs to me or anything. I'm not noticing anything real out of the norm for the style. Vocal levels seem even between singing and screaming. What I would like to hear is some deviation from dominant production styles. Some different and creative uses of vocal fx. A less dry sound overall. There's a lot of music that sounds like this and it's been that way for over a decade. The only thing close to a metalcore album I still listen to is Darkened Heart by All That Remains, which I think the band has basically disowned live from what I've heard Labonte say. I was an early adopter of the styles this type of music took influence from, aside from hardcore. All that melo death stuff like In Flames and Dark Tranquility was in my collection almost 17 years ago. When Shadows Fall Of One Blood came out, it was kinda a big deal in Metal circles. But ever since Metal started becoming more mainstream in 03-06, I feel like the labels and music establishment have dictated that it be more homogeneous and that a lot of production creativity has stagnated(same deal with other forms of music too).

Again I'll say this song is extremely well done with the style it's going for. Sounds up to par or better than anything on Century Media or these other labels that specialize in modern metal.

 

[Fagulhakc]

Nice song, nice production. Congratulations.

 

[jsaudio]

I don't know that it feels like two different songs to me or anything. I'm not noticing anything real out of the norm for the style. Vocal levels seem even between singing and screaming. What I would like to hear is some deviation from dominant production styles. Some different and creative uses of vocal fx. A less dry sound overall. There's a lot of music that sounds like this and it's been that way for over a decade. The only thing close to a metalcore album I still listen to is Darkened Heart by All That Remains, which I think the band has basically disowned live from what I've heard Labonte say. I was an early adopter of the styles this type of music took influence from, aside from hardcore. All that melo death stuff like In Flames and Dark Tranquility was in my collection almost 17 years ago. When Shadows Fall Of One Blood came out, it was kinda a big deal in Metal circles. But ever since Metal started becoming more mainstream in 03-06, I feel like the labels and music establishment have dictated that it be more homogeneous and that a lot of production creativity has stagnated(same deal with other forms of music too).

Again I'll say this song is extremely well done with the style it's going for. Sounds up to par or better than anything on Century Media or these other labels that specialize in modern metal.

This could become a thread on it's own and every producer has their own feeling of what a "good" mix is or how something is "supposed" to sound and I recognize that everyone has a different perspective on this.

However I have to say for me and my tastes I am a huge fan of Brian Hoods work particularly with the ERRA productions and even Gideon. For whatever reason i like his tones and overall production sound better than pretty much any other producer for me it's just perfect and the sound I want to aim for therefore my production should reflect that! Any one else a big fan of Brian's work?