Compressing? Compressing?

[GearMan2point0]

I am going to be that fucking faggot who wishes to bring up something that has been discussed on this forum many times. But who gives a fuck! Sue me. <Idk even know if I spelt "sue" right.

Anyway, let's discuss compression. What compressor you use, settings...BUT WHY!!!!!!!!! WHY YOU USE SETTINGS YOU USE! I want this to be a big collaboration on guidance.

1.Kick
2.Snare
3.Toms
4.OH
5.HH
6.Bass
7. Guitars
8.Vocals
*9. Synth, Strings etc...
*10.Bus's


MY TAKE! EX//
1.Kick - C1 Comp Mono/30atk 50rel and at 6:1 Ratio. I want the 30ms of smack in the kick, and then I want to Comp to react to tame the tail...with 50ms of release, so it doesn't sound stubby!
2.Snare - API2500/ 1atk .2rel(s) at 6:1 Ratio. I want the tip of the snare hit to be more prominent giving it a highmid cut through the mix, and the release is quick because I want to the keep the transient shape on the end of the sample I use....which is usually always the Singerland 70's snare in SD2
3.Toms - C1 Comp Stereo/30atk 20rel and at 8:1 Ratio. I want the smack in the toms, and I like to keep a decently small release so the the tail of the toms sound massive.
4.Overheads - I limit to try and get rid of the bleed, usually with a 2.5 set release
5.HH - I also limit with the OH
6.Bass - I limit and compress! CLA-2A/ 3atk 6rel at 4:1 Ratio. fast attack and slow release, I want the compressor riding along the bass to keep it leveled and controlled. IT works well with the source. L1 limtter with .3rel just to control the wobble hits....not much gain reduction maybe -2db. I use a multiband, and set atk @ 30ms and rel @40ms. I want low end to be beefy as fug! But VERY controlled so it rides well with the kick creating an energetic low end!
7.Guitars - I limit with 3rel. I still haven't honestly gotten a handle on limiting/compressing guitars.
8.Vocals - I compress multiple times, one instance to fatten highs, and one instance to tame lows, and a limiter to level it out! Minor settings though!
9.Strings etc, - I don't normally even use
10.Buss's - I have a drumshell buss I use to really squash the fug out the drum shells, usually .1atk .1release. harsh ratio and threshold just to give it that distorted as fuck sound. Then I blend with the original drum tracks to give it a fatter sound. This also gives the drums more of a tail!

Hope my ideals can help you! and I hope you decide to add

 

[Gujukal]

Wow, very helpful. Tbh, i usually use the stock comp in Reaper with presets. But i've tried recently to use my own settings. I think that vocals sounds best with a pretty slow attack (35-50 ms) and long realese and high ratio depending on what type of vocal style it is. Im also a bit confused when it comes to compressing guitars, would need guidence here!

 

[tmitchell33]

Most drums: stock pro tools compressor; attack 15ms release 80ms
Snare: Kramer PIE; harmonic distortion sounds amazing
In all honesty I don't use compression on most tracks when using SSD, because you need to ask yourself the most important question when using compression: does it need it? If you are using SSD probably not.

I use CLA on OH and drum BUS, again it has a particular colour that sounds good. I usey Massey limiter on AUX tracks. I use a lot of tape saturation plugins that compress and colour my AUX tracks too.

I like the r series by waves for any application, these are great tools. I use these and the stock pro tools ones on bass.
Vocals, the CLA is nice for presence.

Guitars I use the standard pod farm compressor before the amp sim, I then use Massey limiter just to take 1-2db off the top, distorted guitar is already so compressed that it usually doesn't need much. I also use Massey tape head for my guitar aux.

I usually use tape emulation of some description and analogue summing plugins to replicate natural compression on my aux tracks (especially drums) for several reasons. A bit of grit and overdrive, compression and they typically smooth the transients so your samples sound less plastic.

I also use the standard pro tools compressor to duck tracks.

 

[3tuxedo]

In all honesty I don't use compression on most tracks when using SSD, because you need to ask yourself the most important question when using compression: does it need it? If you are using SSD probably not.

^ So much of this. People compress WAY too much nowadays and have no idea why. I'm all about EQ the living hell out of tracks then maybe a touch of compression it if needs it. Which some obviously do.

For drum samples I'll use the 1176 from UAD on like everything right after loads of surgical EQ. I do not compress sampled cymbals, why? Idk i just don't. I also like to let my mastering chain handle a deal of compression and such so I don't worry about cymbal compression too much. (If they are real drums i'll compress the poo out of everything, including the cymbals, don't get me wrong)

For vocals i'll surgically EQ then run into a really smooth 3a, then right into an 1176 type, either CLA76 or the UAD version. If the first one is a really soft comp, it really helps that second one give it the right punch for me. But how i dial in the second compression is almost embarrassingly heavy.

I don't compress guitars. Most compressors don't react fast enough for high gain guitars (learned from Joey himself). If I ever compress them I just BARELY add some C1 to that jenk. Then always finish with a limiter on my guitar chain, that acts as a compressor.

Great thread btw GearMan.

 

[GearMan2point0]

^ So much of this. People compress WAY too much nowadays and have no idea why. I'm all about EQ the living hell out of tracks then maybe a touch of compression it if needs it. Which some obviously do.

I agree with this 100%. When I use to use Steven Slate I would use too much compression when it was unneeded. But I have learned through the ears to only use it when needed like you said. Many people think "well, everyone else does it, it must do something, so I will throw it on everything."

For drum samples I'll use the 1176 from UAD on like everything right after loads of surgical EQ. I do not compress sampled cymbals, why? Idk i just don't. I also like to let my mastering chain handle a deal of compression and such so I don't worry about cymbal compression too much. (If they are real drums i'll compress the poo out of everything, including the cymbals, don't get me wrong)

When you use programmed cymbals do you use a limiter to squash the bleed? I even though I could easily go into SD and take out some of the bleed via program. But I feel that the bleed of the snare and kick have add a nice character to the mix when I limit the fuck out of the OH's. Not too mention it smoothens out the bells and splashes a little so it's not so piercing.

 

[GearMan2point0]

Gujukal and tmitchell33, do you guys mind sharing more of a reason you would use 30ms of attack rather than 50ms? What kind of intentions do you have when you use such settings. Things that new people can really pull from to get a better understanding.

 

[3tuxedo]

When you use programmed cymbals do you use a limiter to squash the bleed? I even though I could easily go into SD and take out some of the bleed via program. But I feel that the bleed of the snare and kick have add a nice character to the mix when I limit the fuck out of the OH's. Not too mention it smoothens out the bells and splashes a little so it's not so piercing.

Totally man, if I use SSD cymbals ill hit it with a limiter but not too hard cause i sort of like it just a little bit in there. Actually lately I haven't been using SSD cymbals I've been using samples I've gathered elsewhere (here/gearslutz ect.) Which now that I think about it is so much more work because I have to go through and change velocities and whatever so it doesn't sound so fake.

 

[tmitchell33]

I would be happy to. I you set a compressor with an attack of 15ms and release time of 80ms and slam the threshold nearly all the way down, you will hear that only the attack remains un processed. Therefore, you can appreciate that you are affecting the volume of the body (Sustain) of the kick drum with these settings, resulting in a tight, punchy sound. Using an attack time of 50ms is going to start to effect the sustain and decay of the kick drum, hence boosting this will result in a very big, roomy / live sounding kick.

Typically I use a compressor with an attack of 15ms on drums if I am trying to achieve a gain reduction of 2-3dB. If I want to achieve more gain reduction, I will adjust the attack to 30-50ms. The techniques I am employing are not to reduce the transients and peeks, I am amplifying the nulls using make-up gain (Basically making the quiet bits louder).

I do not use compressors on SSD direct sources, such as kick drums and snares. I DO however use compression on the overheads / cymbals. Why? Listen to a professionally produced album and concentrate on the cymbals. Notice how the attack is basically incoherent? It's more like a continual layer of cymbal, the decay is just as loud as the attack! I use the techniques described above along with others to increase the level of my SSD's cymbal sustain and decay, filling the voids of sound between kick and snare.

For those of you who do use compression on SSD kick and snare I would strongly suggest to test the following, set a compressor with the settings described above, then reduce the threshold to achieve a gain reduction of say -10dB. What do you notice? All the bass has gone!! Yes - hard compression will result in a loss of bottom end!!! So remember if your SSD kick drum has 1 - 2dB of level deviation, does it really need compression? Probably not unless you are trying to achieve an artistic effect of sorts.

If you are trying to reduce the dynamic range of an instrument, I would look to the following tools: Automatin, clippers and limiters.

I do, however use tape saturation and console emulation plugins on SSD sources and AUX tracks. These are a different concept again. These seem to (I think lol) curve and distort the attack of a sound source, in a rather pleasing way.

This is a work in progress but it is an audible example of my technique: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/109965412/drums_nls_yes.wav

I also use 'ducking' on this track, lots of tape and console emulation to slow transients as well as parallell compression techniques. If anyone would like any information on these techniques just let me know. If I am gassing on too much just tell me to shut up! Sorry about the long post! But I hope this helps anyone who is unsure of compression techniques.

 

[GearMan2point0]

I would be happy to. I you set a compressor with an attack of 15ms and release time of 80ms and slam the threshold nearly all the way down, you will hear that only the attack remains un processed. Therefore, you can appreciate that you are affecting the volume of the body (Sustain) of the kick drum with these settings, resulting in a tight, punchy sound. Using an attack time of 50ms is going to start to effect the sustain and decay of the kick drum, hence boosting this will result in a very big, roomy / live sounding kick.

Typically I use a compressor with an attack of 15ms on drums if I am trying to achieve a gain reduction of 2-3dB. If I want to achieve more gain reduction, I will adjust the attack to 30-50ms. The techniques I am employing are not to reduce the transients and peeks, I am amplifying the nulls using make-up gain (Basically making the quiet bits louder).

I do not use compressors on SSD direct sources, such as kick drums and snares. I DO however use compression on the overheads / cymbals. Why? Listen to a professionally produced album and concentrate on the cymbals. Notice how the attack is basically incoherent? It's more like a continual layer of cymbal, the decay is just as loud as the attack! I use the techniques described above along with others to increase the level of my SSD's cymbal sustain and decay, filling the voids of sound between kick and snare.

For those of you who do use compression on SSD kick and snare I would strongly suggest to test the following, set a compressor with the settings described above, then reduce the threshold to achieve a gain reduction of say -10dB. What do you notice? All the bass has gone!! Yes - hard compression will result in a loss of bottom end!!! So remember if your SSD kick drum has 1 - 2dB of level deviation, does it really need compression? Probably not unless you are trying to achieve an artistic effect of sorts.

If you are trying to reduce the dynamic range of an instrument, I would look to the following tools: Automatin, clippers and limiters.

I do, however use tape saturation and console emulation plugins on SSD sources and AUX tracks. These are a different concept again. These seem to (I think lol) curve and distort the attack of a sound source, in a rather pleasing way.

This is a work in progress but it is an audible example of my technique: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/109965412/drums_nls_yes.wav

I also use 'ducking' on this track, lots of tape and console emulation to slow transients as well as parallell compression techniques. If anyone would like any information on these techniques just let me know. If I am gassing on too much just tell me to shut up! Sorry about the long post! But I hope this helps anyone who is unsure of compression techniques.

Amazing! I do notice that with SSD very much. Even while mastering when you compress too much, especially with fast attack, your low end goes....byebye. but man this is insightful.

Would you say or anyone else rather, say you would throw a limiter on a drum bus?

 

[tmitchell33]

Most definitely, but again -1dB off the top. Just to keep it level.

 

[abaga129]

First off the only compressors I ever end up using are Reacomp, ReaXComp and Density MKIII. My favorite technique for compression is using a multiband comp on the master bus. One my most recent mix this really brought everything together and tightened the low end. I use 4 bands and use a fairly slow attack and long release so it's a little more transparent. I put the ratio on each band 2:1 and then adjust the thresholds so they average around -2db gain reduction. Then I turn auto-makeup gain off and adjust the sliders manually.

After this I use Density MKIII which is an incredible bus comp. I use a similar ratio and attack/release settings on it and adjust the drive to where there's usually about .5-1 db gain reduction.

I would say how I comp the vocals and drums but my phone battery is dying haha. But I agree that compressing guitars doesn't do much good. They are already compressed to shit from the distortion and the way the OD pedal + amp + cab are gain staged there is a lot of clipping involved.

 

[GearMan2point0]

I have been thinking lately....there is a spectrum of frequency ranges paired in each instrument. But for drums, bass, guitar and vocals there is a compression range too. Think about it. Attack and Release for kick is going to be different than the attack for vocals. People need to understand the difference. When you want a slow attack or a fast attack, or slow or fast release. It all depends on the source of the sample at hand.......

There is a sound that Joey has in his mixes. It's a "ducking" sound during chugs. It's mid-low heavy but it gives it a thick sound while breakdowns happen. I figured it's definitely the way he compresses everything so well that it gives a thickness in everything. Compressing so the compressor kicks in on the kick slower, then bass a little faster and limiting on the guitar can make people perceive this vacuum effect sound. If anyone understands me.

 

[tmitchell33]

An audio example would be good. I am guessing you are referring to ducking. This is when for example, you put a compressor on a guitar track and assign the compressor's key input a source, such as your kick drum or snare. This way every time your kick or snare play, your guitar track drops 2-3dB. This technique brings your drums forward without increasing the level. Audible pumping could be one of many things including side chain or parallel compression techniques.

 

[GearMan2point0]

An audio example would be good. I am guessing you are referring to ducking. This is when for example, you put a compressor on a guitar track and assign the compressor's key input a source, such as your kick drum or snare. This way every time your kick or snare play, your guitar track drops 2-3dB. This technique brings your drums forward without increasing the level. Audible pumping could be one of many things including side chain or parallel compression techniques.

I agree, then automate in compensation for tempo.

 

[abaga129]

I'm glad you brought this up. I haven't consider side chaining in a long time and it should probably be something in my most common tricks. I used to use it daily when I wrote electronic music.

I've always heard side chaining the kick to the bass' lower frequencies can really clear up the low end of your mix and I imagine it would also allow you to push the limiter on the 2bus a little harder since it seems that the low end is always what hits the limiter first in metal. (Aside from the snare)

 

[GearMan2point0]

I'm glad you brought this up. I haven't consider side chaining in a long time and it should probably be something in my most common tricks. I used to use it daily when I wrote electronic music.

I've always heard side chaining the kick to the bass' lower frequencies can really clear up the low end of your mix and I imagine it would also allow you to push the limiter on the 2bus a little harder since it seems that the low end is always what hits the limiter first in metal. (Aside from the snare)

Most definitely. It's also a common practice to sidechain toms with the guitars. If specific, usually around 100hz. Toms are my OCD, they have to have balls throughout the mix. But once people do this, they MUST use attack and release correctly or it's going to suck life out of the guitars.

 

[abaga129]

Hmm I've never heard that for toms maybe I should try that on my next mix.

And yeah attack and release is definitely key. You want it to activate when the drum hits but release immediately after the transient if I'm not mistaken.