Never been a huge DT fan, but have their last 3 or 4 albums and I like the band. However, at this stage, it does tend to sound repetitive. New album is nothing new from the latest stuff from them. Just better than average melodic death metal. the only thing, though, the vocals seem less melodic than in Haven or Damage Done. I even liked Fiction a tad bit better, but of course, need more listens. I guess that is why I like Soilwork a little bit more, because of the great changes to a very melodic chorus from the growling verse. DT does not have that, or very little of that, so the songs seem to blend into each other. Of course, again, a few more listens are warranted!!!
Dark Tranquility - We Are the Void..thoughts?
- Thread starter templeofmax
- Start date
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
Not sure how familiar you are with the band's history, but Dark Tranquillity's last four discs would be considered their four worst by the vast majority of fans who have been with them since the beginning. Your assessment of these last four discs as being repetitive is one I'd agree with, and it's why I've lost interest in the band. And if you're calling them "better than average" in their current state, I'd agree again. However, if your assessing their entire body of work as such, I would disagree. They are one of the two or three seminal Melodic Death Metal bands, and of those three, the most experimental.
eppst1
Member
Wow - I must be in the miniority then. I really, really like Damage Done (maybe one of my favs from them) and really enjoyed Character and Fiction. At first I wasn't a huge fan of Void, but it is really starting to grow on me.
You can take this for what you want, but the reviews on Metal-Archives has the last 4 averaging a 78 where Damage is 87 (the second highest to Skydancer) and the lowest being Void at 60. This is based on 86 total DT reviews. Character and Fiction both ranked higher than The Gallery, The Mind's I (my least fav DT disc), Projector, and Haven. So I'm not sure I can agree when you say that "vast majority of fans" who consider their last 4 their worst, not only from the MA reviews, but Metal Observer also ranks the last 3 (not counting Void - not reviewed yet) in the high 8's, low 9's, and from my own personal opinion.
But I will agree with you that Void is probably not their best work, but I like it more than Mind's I.
dcowboys311
Member
Yeah, haven't really heard of anyone hating on Character or Damage Done.
The new one sucks though. A shame.
The new one sucks though. A shame.
jem777az
Bozzman
I actually like the new album a lot. I think it sounds a little more "modern" sounding than their previous few albums which all sound basically the same (even though I enjoy those too).
skyrefuge
Member
To be fair, Zod said "the vast majority of fans who have been with them since the beginning", which is clearly a different cohort than the MA reviewers, otherwise they would have scored the albums more correctly! He could have also said "the vast majority of fans who aren't stupid idiots with marbles in their ears."
For the record, I don't think I've even listened to 'We Are the Void', beyond what I heard in concert. I didn't hear anything horrible, but nor did I hear anything that told me I needed the album. I haven't heard them do anything new since 'Damage Done', which is fine for some bands, but for me, DT built their brand on doing something new for each of their first four albums.
Neil
eppst1
Member
I know he said from the begining, that's why I compared the last 4 CD reviews to the first 5 CD reviews. Unless what you are saying is that the reivewers are different people? Or you are just giving me some poop.
To be nitpicky, here's my 2 cents.
-There is a bigger difference in sound/style between Damage Done and Character than is often acknowledged. It's become more apparent now than it was when Character was their newest, because Fiction (and I think Void) are more similar to the Character blueprint than Character was to the Damage blueprint. Now that it's 2010 (and really since 2007), Damage strikes me as closer to the Haven style than to the Character-present style.
-The first four albums are not that different. The main difference was an increasing level of focus or 'fat trimming' from Skydancer through The Mind's I (although I can understand any two adjacent albums in this period being considered very similar). Obviously they were (well, IMO) brilliant works and also obviously there was a huge change for Projector, but for me it's more [1, 2, 3] and [4-Projector] than [1][2][3][4] all being totally different albums.
eppst1
Member
Can you clarify please what is the "In Flames syndrome". At least for me, there is zero comparassion between DT and newer IF. I liked IF up to and including Clayman, but they lost me at Reroute. I really don't feel DT made that huge style change similar to IF.
DT >>>>> IF
skyrefuge
Member
Yeah, I'm saying that you're talking about different groups of people. Zod was saying "If you take a bunch of (highly intelligent and stunningly good-looking) old farts who bought 'Skydancer' the day it came out and who correctly think Soilwork is gay, and ask them to rank the DT albums, they'll greatly prefer the earlier albums." You're saying "If you take a bunch of dorky emo kiddies who only know of DT because they're on the same label as Vampires Everywhere!, they'll prefer the later albums."* And I'm saying there's no conflict between those two statements because you're talking about different groups of people.
* Given the indisputable, objective truth that the earlier DT albums are better than the later ones, the only possible way to explain the MA ratings is to assume that the reviewers are all dorky emo kiddies who don't know what good music is.
Ok, yeah, I'm probably doing that too. I was actually really excited to see you go to MA to make a data-based argument, rather than the more common "since me and my two friends don't like this album, I extrapolate from there and conclude that it's the band's worst album and *everyone* hates it".
Neil
That pretty much sums it up.
Kick ass band puts out kick ass albums then changes their sound so it's no longer kick ass and sounds like everything else.
Of course there's other bands that do this but In Flames and Dark Tranquility are close enough to use the comparison.
eppst1
Member
So you are saying that DT did make the huge style change? If so, I guess you and I have different opinions.
I hear a huge difference from their first few releases versus what they're releasing now.
dcowboys311
Member
The difference between the two style changes is that In Flames went from being awesome to garbage, while DT went from being awesome to slightly less awesome, but still better than most other bands.
skyrefuge
Member
Yeah, I actually agree with this. But although the differences between them are more evolutionary than paradigm-shifting, they were (and still are) different than *anything else* any other bands were doing, so that adds to their uniqueness and value to me. While there may not exactly be any "modern Dark Tranquillity clones" out there, I feel that their current style is much more conventional and obvious, and thus, less valuable.
On top of that, 'Projector' ended up being such a tease. After the nice steady evolution of the first three, they picked up the pace a notch for 'Projector', which made me think "awesome, this is just getting better and better, where are they going to go next??!?" Instead, they just chickened out and reverted. Perhaps if they'd never released 'Projector', I'd be less-disappointed with the second half of their career.
But it's good to hear your analysis of the differences between the later albums, since I agree with your analysis of the earlier ones, and never really took the time to get to know the later albums myself.
Neil
I'm on board with your points, including the (relative) conventionality of the new albums (I do think quality remains high). I also consider Haven to be my least-favorite DT album. I phrase it that way because I still like it quite a bit, but it does represent a corner-turning in their trajectory. I probably misunderstood your initial statement about the first four albums: I initially read it as you saying that they were all different from each other and the band reinvented itself each time, but based on your clarification here, you were saying that those four albums as a set represent DT doing something unique from other bands during that time period.
General Zod
Ruler of Australia
This is the key point for me. At some point, DT ceased to be a leader, and instead fell back into the herd. It's a shame too, as Projector suggested they were poised to go in a direction that would have been very interesting.
This. When I first heard Dark Tranquility I was like who are these dudes and where have I been? Now... not so much. I think I'm getting bitter with my music lately though, so who knows? Opinions are opinions after all.
Jasonic
Doom On!
Oy Vey!
It's 2010, and you guys are spending THIS much time analyzing a band like DT's work???? It will be a never ending cycle.
Pretty much EVERY Gothenburg band (if not all) who are still active are no longer pumping out material which matches the quality of their early work. As these bands have become more popular in the States, they have at the same time become more influenced by bands from the States.
skyrefuge - I know you aim to score cool points whenever you can, but I seriously doubt you purchased Skydancer the day it came out, as I would bet dollars to donuts that it was not immediately available for purchase anywhere in the US.
It's 2010, and you guys are spending THIS much time analyzing a band like DT's work???? It will be a never ending cycle.
Pretty much EVERY Gothenburg band (if not all) who are still active are no longer pumping out material which matches the quality of their early work. As these bands have become more popular in the States, they have at the same time become more influenced by bands from the States.
skyrefuge - I know you aim to score cool points whenever you can, but I seriously doubt you purchased Skydancer the day it came out, as I would bet dollars to donuts that it was not immediately available for purchase anywhere in the US.
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