Found out a close bud now works with one of the bigger venues around here. Gotta sell 20+ tickets to play shows.
Wtf? This shit normal? :zombie:
Wtf? This shit normal? :zombie:
Dudes in band, you guys have to sell tickets to play live?
- Thread starter JonWormwood
- Start date
brianhood
No Care Ever
for some venues this is very normal. Not many venues like that in the Southeast that i know of, but there are lots in New Jersey/New York area
what venue is it? Fuel Cafe?
what venue is it? Fuel Cafe?
ParsonsMatt
Alas, Tyranny
K Odell
\=/Varnisher\=/
oh man the imperial? haha lord I haven't been there in ages. Its very normal though to have to sell tickets although I never had to sell any to play the Imperial.......nor would I.
jrt12
Member
yea, that "pay to play" shit is prevalent out here in LA. its a total ripoff where everyone makes money but the band... i wouldnt recommend it unless youre actually opening for a national band that will draw people to the club. otherwise, youre playing to a room of bands' friends... who really arent there to hear anyone else but their friend who dragged them there to see their band.
Sean in Silence
Member
This is normal in my experience.
There have been a few venues who don't mind if you don't sell the set minimum amount of tickets, they just won't pay you, but it's definitely not uncommon to be required to sell a certain amount of tickets in order to play.
There have been a few venues who don't mind if you don't sell the set minimum amount of tickets, they just won't pay you, but it's definitely not uncommon to be required to sell a certain amount of tickets in order to play.
Torniojaws
They call me Juha
Not normal in Finland. But then again, most venues that draw more than 200 people won't even arrange gigs for smaller bands (read: not having an album on the charts), unless the band is opening for a more known, similar band.
A couple of places where I live do that if it's the venue putting the gig on - it's normally a case of "get in X people and you won't have to pay for the sound guy", and it's normally a pretty reasonable amount. However annoying it is, I can understand it; if no one turns up, the venue doesn't make any money, so they're just trying to make sure they get a crowd. It also means bands won't bother trying to play there unless they're prepared to put in the effort of advertising it. The promoters never do it - if they tried they'd never be able to book any bands - so now my band always try to book through someone else and not directly with the venues. Round here at least, the promoters are given pretty much the same deal though.
The second biggest venue here (800-ish capacity) puts on gigs for local bands where they essentially force the band to buy tickets to play. They give the band a book of tickets with a face value of (for example) £5, and the band has to sell them all. If they don't, they have to pay for the leftover tickets themselves. This isn't properly explained until after the band have the tickets, and the tickets themselves have the venues price printed on them - so for the band to make any money, they have to A) charge more than it actually says on the ticket and normally B) sell all the tickets. One of my old bands was made up of 16-17 year-olds when they played there, and they were given 40 tickets to sell - that's £200s worth of tickets for a lineup that only has unsigned local bands on it. Fortunately they all went to different schools so they got a huge crowd in.
It's a fucking disgusting set up, and basically stops most of the locals bands from playing at one of only two decent-sized venues here (which are both owned by the local University) unless they get a support slot on a tour. The metal bands seem to have almost universally stuck two fingers up at them, but there are still rock/indie/punk bands getting shafted there twice a month.
Steve
The second biggest venue here (800-ish capacity) puts on gigs for local bands where they essentially force the band to buy tickets to play. They give the band a book of tickets with a face value of (for example) £5, and the band has to sell them all. If they don't, they have to pay for the leftover tickets themselves. This isn't properly explained until after the band have the tickets, and the tickets themselves have the venues price printed on them - so for the band to make any money, they have to A) charge more than it actually says on the ticket and normally B) sell all the tickets. One of my old bands was made up of 16-17 year-olds when they played there, and they were given 40 tickets to sell - that's £200s worth of tickets for a lineup that only has unsigned local bands on it. Fortunately they all went to different schools so they got a huge crowd in.
It's a fucking disgusting set up, and basically stops most of the locals bands from playing at one of only two decent-sized venues here (which are both owned by the local University) unless they get a support slot on a tour. The metal bands seem to have almost universally stuck two fingers up at them, but there are still rock/indie/punk bands getting shafted there twice a month.
Steve
dontletmedrown
Producer/Composer
- Jul 8, 2006
- 259
- 0
- 16
I occasionally work doing sound at a live venue. We usually have five bands (or more) playing. On average, there is one or two bands that will bring in 40+ people, while the other three each bring less than 10 each. We've had some bands that bring 3-5 people. 
At $7 per head, after the venue pays me and the 2 security guys, there is not much left for the venue or the bands. They average 6-8 shows a month, so after rent they're not exactly making a killing.
When I used to play in a band, I would bitch about "pay to play" too, but the reality is that there really isn't much money to be made when you're counting on a band of slackers that have no networking skills (or talent). Try looking at it from the perspective of a business. Maybe it sounds mean, but if you're band has been playing for over a year and you can't draw more than 100 paying heads, maybe it's time to go back to the drawing board.
At $7 per head, after the venue pays me and the 2 security guys, there is not much left for the venue or the bands. They average 6-8 shows a month, so after rent they're not exactly making a killing.When I used to play in a band, I would bitch about "pay to play" too, but the reality is that there really isn't much money to be made when you're counting on a band of slackers that have no networking skills (or talent
). Try looking at it from the perspective of a business. Maybe it sounds mean, but if you're band has been playing for over a year and you can't draw more than 100 paying heads, maybe it's time to go back to the drawing board.
jrt12
Member
i completely disagree with you (and yes i can look objectively at this as a business man). seems like there's diatribes about this every other week on craigslist or something, but in the end it comes down to:
1. if promoters arent promoting, then why the hell should they get a dime?
2. the venue is offering live music to patrons as a service. who provides the service? musicians. pay them just as you'd pay a DJ or comedian etc. since when do musicians have to pay others to listen to music? (though i agree, some bands should pay you after you hear the dreck theyre passing off as music)
3. majority of the money is made at the bar, not the door. everyone knows that. think that is getting shared?
its a fucking racket, but unfortunately its "just the way it is" in too many places until bands stop giving into it.
1. if promoters arent promoting, then why the hell should they get a dime?
2. the venue is offering live music to patrons as a service. who provides the service? musicians. pay them just as you'd pay a DJ or comedian etc. since when do musicians have to pay others to listen to music? (though i agree, some bands should pay you after you hear the dreck theyre passing off as music)
3. majority of the money is made at the bar, not the door. everyone knows that. think that is getting shared?
its a fucking racket, but unfortunately its "just the way it is" in too many places until bands stop giving into it.
dontletmedrown
Producer/Composer
- Jul 8, 2006
- 259
- 0
- 16
jrt12,
As I mentioned above, we do pay our bands (even the ones that bring 3 people), so I'm not sure why you "completely disagree" with me. I'm not endorsing Pay to Play, just saying that I understand why some places go that route. The problem is, there is not a huge demand for people to come and see a bunch of bands that nobody has ever heard.
We're not featuring Killswitch Engage here-- I'm talking about kids who are beating up their out of tune instruments that have not even made the slightest effort to promote themselves. Sorry, if your band has 4 people in it, I expect AT LEAST 8-12 heads. Also, we have no bar. The place I work is an all ages music instruction school/recording/live venue. ("Rock City Studios" in my links)
As I mentioned above, we do pay our bands (even the ones that bring 3 people), so I'm not sure why you "completely disagree" with me. I'm not endorsing Pay to Play, just saying that I understand why some places go that route. The problem is, there is not a huge demand for people to come and see a bunch of bands that nobody has ever heard.
We're not featuring Killswitch Engage here-- I'm talking about kids who are beating up their out of tune instruments that have not even made the slightest effort to promote themselves. Sorry, if your band has 4 people in it, I expect AT LEAST 8-12 heads. Also, we have no bar. The place I work is an all ages music instruction school/recording/live venue. ("Rock City Studios" in my links)
jrt12
Member
chdrummer
Member
- Oct 24, 2007
- 539
- 0
- 16
we only have to sell presales to bigger shows with alot of touring bands. but recently since we've been getting bigger we haven't had to sell many. we just co headlined a show with we were gentlemen and didn't have to sell any tickets. same with the knights of the abyss show we have coming up next month!
my band had to pay $1,200 dollars (80 tickets sold at $15.00/piece) to play at the whiskey in hollywood with abigail williams, goatwhore, daath, and swaats.
it's usually not THAT expensive, but it was 'cause they're signed bands. it's usually around 50 tickets at like 10 bucks a piece
but yea, really fuckin' annoying man.
20+ tickets by himself or split throughout the band?
it's usually not THAT expensive, but it was 'cause they're signed bands. it's usually around 50 tickets at like 10 bucks a piece
but yea, really fuckin' annoying man.
20+ tickets by himself or split throughout the band?
Styvo
Member
- Feb 27, 2008
- 189
- 0
- 16
Here in Melbourne i have noticed the same principle put into place.Organizers run band comps and ask bands to sell tickets at $10-$20 dollars a pop.
It's there way of making some money off the event in order to keep it going and potentially (i guess) offer the winning band something,although some of the better band comps definitely have sponsors on board.
I don't agree with it,especially for the younger bands who are just wanting experience and exposure but as the saying goes,"this is the music business after all"
I think it would be ok though,if the band was guaranteed an income of some sort but most just get a couple of free drinks etc.
It's there way of making some money off the event in order to keep it going and potentially (i guess) offer the winning band something,although some of the better band comps definitely have sponsors on board.
I don't agree with it,especially for the younger bands who are just wanting experience and exposure but as the saying goes,"this is the music business after all"
I think it would be ok though,if the band was guaranteed an income of some sort but most just get a couple of free drinks etc.
Loren Littlejohn
Lover of all boobage.
You guys are on crack.
Here is what you fucking do:
Sell the tickets, pocket the money and don't fucking show up. Don't sign a fucking contract on that shit either unless your getting something out of it. If these bitch promoters are so lazy that they are relying on their talent to promote the show decreasing the risk then they should promptly go fuck themselves in the ass with a baseball bat.
My brother got roped into this racket, only he wasn't paid and got a shit spot.
Pay for play, especially when your opening for a larger act that will draw people anyhow, is bullshit period.
Here is what you fucking do:
Sell the tickets, pocket the money and don't fucking show up. Don't sign a fucking contract on that shit either unless your getting something out of it. If these bitch promoters are so lazy that they are relying on their talent to promote the show decreasing the risk then they should promptly go fuck themselves in the ass with a baseball bat.
My brother got roped into this racket, only he wasn't paid and got a shit spot.
Pay for play, especially when your opening for a larger act that will draw people anyhow, is bullshit period.
Well, for the more well known venues, contracts are required. no contract=no deal.
I agree with you on that, but it's just the traditional way of climbing the ladder for most bands :\
I agree with you on that, but it's just the traditional way of climbing the ladder for most bands :\
Loren Littlejohn
Lover of all boobage.
Tokyurot
Mental Errorist
- May 18, 2009
- 243
- 0
- 16
In Finland demo-bands usually don't get paid more than gas money, and after the show you can buy beer with discount,
or sometimes the venue will give beer for free as your pay.
Many bands aren't there for the money (at first). They love playing live and are happy just to get some new fans every show.
In some places demo-bands get food, beer, and abit of money on top of the gas money, but no selling tickets.
If you plan on getting rich here, you better start playing 'humppa' fulltime and metal for free, just to get rid of the left-eye-twitches humppa can cause you
or sometimes the venue will give beer for free as your pay.
Many bands aren't there for the money (at first). They love playing live and are happy just to get some new fans every show.
In some places demo-bands get food, beer, and abit of money on top of the gas money, but no selling tickets.
If you plan on getting rich here, you better start playing 'humppa' fulltime and metal for free, just to get rid of the left-eye-twitches humppa can cause you
Similar threads
