E-Mu & M-Audio

silverwulf

silverwulf

Ghost in the Machine
Mar 6, 2002
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Ok guys, I've been checking out various sound cards and products for home recording lately, and I've been looking at products in roughly the $500 or less range. I've most recently been looking into the M-Audio Delta 1010 or 1010LT or the E-Mu 1820 or E-Mu 1820M.

I've heard both great tales of the quality from the above products, as well as some horror stories. If you have used or had experience with one of the above, is there one you would recommend more than another? I would like something of at least decent quality in the price range, and need something that will accomodate enough inputs for drums (8 would be fine for me). Also, if you think there's a better product than what I've mentioned in the price range, please feel free to suggest. Thanks for your input!
 
I've owned an M-Audio Delta 1010 for several years and I love it. No problems with it at all, I highly recomend it. One of the big advantages of the 1010 is the ability to daisy chain several of them together for more inputs.
 
I'm a very happy owner of the E-MU 1820M (10 months now). I used to have a Layla 24 and a Mackie 1402 deck that I used for almost 6 years. Upgrading to the 1820M let me ditch the Mackie completely and go virtual (took a while to get used to but now I am very comfy with it). Also, Patchmix DSP (the brain/control center for the EMU) is going to support MIDI CC very soon which will ROCK; (will let you use hardware to control it instead of mouse clicks).

The AD/DA's in that card are top class. I run my sessions at 24/96, but when you do that you lose the internal effects (no big deal - they tend to lean on the cheeze side). The nice thing about the audiodock is that it lets you run outboard gear on the aux sends via a physical send/return so you can have a nice "wet" monitor and dry print. The TFPro mic pres (2 of them) are "OK" but I replaced mine with Studio Projects VTB1 tube mic pres. You can easily mic an entire kit and have each piece on a separate mono track, as well as stereo overheads.

Bottom line, with your budget of $500 or less (the 1820M is $499) I cannot think of a single card that would better suit your needs than the E-MU. The sound is excellent, the features are aplenty, and it runs flawlessly under WinXP with Sonar, Cubase, Nuendo and Logic. Just be sure to get the "M" not the standard 1820. The M has the upgraded ADDA's.
 
i´ve been using the m-audio 1814 fw at the studio. No problems.

Emu cards look impressive but be sure to check if you can return it if it doesn´t work with your system. The drivers lack stability.
 
The 1212M plus the Berry is a good suggestion, but he would only be able to record 2 individual tracks simultaneously with that setup.

If you dont NEED massive I/O and will only track 2 mono or one stereo source at a time, then the 1212M is a no brainer for $199 (or even less in some cases). You can also upgrade later and buy the dock separately.

As for driver/stability issues - I did have a SLEW of problems with mine at first because of my SATA RAID0. I signed an NDA, did the whole bit, beta tested etc, I ended up switching to ATA133 for the rec. drive, and delegated my SATA for DFHS/AKAI/Sample storage and its been great ever since. The issues that people have are mostly the result of poor chipsets, IRQ conflicts, not disabling onboard audio, or PCI latency issues. No complaints here, but if you google or hit the EMU forums you will find a SQUAZILLION topics about people having problems - all related to what I mentioned.
 
I've been using the E-MU system for over a year now with absolutely no problems. The converters are the same ones used by Digidesign on the Pro Tools HD3 192. E-MU (Creative) bought the overstock chips from manufacturer in Japan. I don't think that there's any competition, at least soundwise, in this price range.
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys...I've also looked at those Mackie VLZ Mixers that are available, like the 1402 and the 1642. What do you guys think of the mic pre's in those things, in comparison to something like the Behringer ADA8000 that was mentioned?
 
I don't own either company's cards, but have had experience on both. For the budget-minded people, I prefer the M-Audio cards, but for overall sound, the Emu ones are better. Their converters are a lot clearer and more accurate than those found on the M-Audio cards, although the M-Audio ones are still entirely useable. Now, as far as Emu and the Digidesign 192 converter chips, that is true, but they sound vastly inferior to the 192's, as there are a lot of other variables that go into making the quality of converters, which Emu has downgraded(this is inevitable, as they couldn't sell their stuff this low if they did use Digi's technology or something comparable). Basically, they're both solid companies, but Emu sounds a little better.
 
silverwulf - I am very qualified to help you here. The XDR pres in the 1402VLZ Pro are quite good, bordering on very good. The TFPro mic pres in the E-MU are also "good". I think Ted Fletcher designed them to be a bit "warm" though, so they are not quite as detailed as I would like. Problem solved with the $99 VTB1. I have not used a Berry ADA8000, so I cannot comment on that specific piece. I think it sounds a bit inexpensive considered there are 8 preamps crammed in there and I seriously doubt the ADDA's are near that of the M series E-MU. I A/B tested the Aphex 207 mic pre against the XDR Mackies and I preferred the XDR. Seemed to have more headroom, and just a better, punchier, in your face sound. I think the 207 is more geared toward vocal work, acoustic guitars, things like that. I don't think it was meant to do high spl dnyamic guitar cabs slamming a mic...

Bottom line is this... You will not find a more flexible, better sounding solution for $499 than you will with the 1820M. No, I don't work for E-MU, I have nothing to gain but to help you out. The Patchmix will do everything a Mackie board will do and more. Think about it. For $500 bucks you will get everything you need, no need for an external mixer. The only thing you could pick up would be some external mic pres. I cannot rave about the VTB1 enough. I put a 1971 Mullard in mine and I love the thing. I'm all about value, dude. =)

Also - if you get the E-MU, I'm sure that any of us on this board who own the card would be more than willing to help you get it up and running. I even made a flash tutorial for someone a while ago...
 
Yes, 10 sources at a time, but not 10 individual/separate tracks all ending up on their own respective channels inside of host app - that's what I meant, guess I did not word it properly.
 
Definitely thanks for all the input...it's been greatly helpful. even from more than what I've heard here, the general consensus seems to be that the majority of people prefer the E-Mu gear over the M-Audio. So, I'm definitely leaning that way now.

I may very well need some help after I gather everything I need, so I may take you (EFB) up on the offer for assistance...:)
 
EtherForBreakfast said:
Yes, 10 sources at a time, but not 10 individual/separate tracks all ending up on their own respective channels inside of host app - that's what I meant, guess I did not word it properly.
Click to expand...

I don't think you worded it properly this time either...no matter. I'm getting more confused, maybe i have a screwed up understanding of "respective channels" than you do, so lets just drop it.
 
EtherForBreakfast said:
Yes, 10 sources at a time, but not 10 individual/separate tracks all ending up on their own respective channels inside of host app - that's what I meant, guess I did not word it properly.
Click to expand...

Yes you can, the 1212M has ADAT in which means you can have 8 channels on there and another 2 on the analogue ins..
 
My bad, my bad.

I was not even thinking about the ADAT because I did not realize the Berry unit had ADAT interface. So yes, Silverwulf, you could get the 1212M and that Berry which would give you a toal of 2 1/4" inputs, 8 channels of ADAT plus 2 more with that S/Pdif for a total of 12 inputs.. BUT I'd still put it to you that the 1820M is the way to go.
 
Exsanguis said:
Now, as far as Emu and the Digidesign 192 converter chips, that is true, but they sound vastly inferior to the 192's, as there are a lot of other variables that go into making the quality of converters, which Emu has downgraded(this is inevitable, as they couldn't sell their stuff this low if they did use Digi's technology or something comparable).
Click to expand...

Not really, bro. The chips are two channel converters. The 192 has 16 of these chips. Take the price of the 1212m and multiply by 16, and it's about the same price as a 192...
 
Fair enough, but that still doesn't explain why they sound so different(worse IMO) from the 192's(which I will say I'm not crazily fond of anymore now that the studio got some Apogee's and the HEDD). Whatever the case may be, the Emu ones sound better than the M-Audio's, but for a few hundred bucks more, you can get something from RME, with even better converters. It all depends on ones budget(doesn't it always :yell: )
 
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