Existential Crisis

[speed]

I part company with the other members over the suggestions and ways of thinking they have offered thus far.

Thought and disposition (in the sense of basic attunement) are intimately related. As I understand it, being thoughtful does not mean "overcoming" or setting aside anxiety (terror in the face of what is closest) but just the opposite; thinking preserves and conserves this terror through careful, but painful, inspection (an undertaking simultaneously grounded in restraint and awe).

The replies to the upheaval speed describes are typically of two sorts: One, a softened reproach that stresses distraction and a grotesque form of coping (namely, into the very "things" and ways of being that make the belly ache). This approach will appeal to comparisons of other times and peoples, as if these sorts of crude (ontic) juxtapositions make any sense (i.e. there are starving people in China) when in fact, they fail to address the dimension of suffering altogether--our way of being, the spiritual. Our torments are the disruption of bonds and responsibility, the flight of the gods, the oppressive/suppressive machination of technological capitalism, the inability to dwell with others--to simply be. Of course, this enumeration barely touches upon the state of affairs.

This leads to the other type of response: impotent and reactionary "idealism" (ala ANUS, Corrupt, etc.). This type of response might list off some of the things I just mentioned and so appear to be in "agreement" at first glance. However, they lack the disposition to conserve this terror and flee into delusions of "revolutions", "activism", "metal culture", "pagan revivalism" and so on, while their actual lives and ways of being are little different, perhaps even sadder, than the average person. It is precisely this flight into the general, into narrative, that marks them as totally ineffective and hopeless.

How do we, or can we, stay within the sliver of middle ground between two responses that retreat from anxiety, pain, and paralysis ("realism" and "idealism"), that are actually linked and grounded in the same soil? As I have hinted before, by tending thinking, as thinking is certainly a deed. By this I do not mean a withdrawal into "books", the academic industry, or the wit and cleverness of "literary interests". Rather, it is through a basic thinking and disposition that we preserve our openness to anxiety, and hence the openness to something other than the hopeless dualism displayed in the responses to the opening post.

What form this takes will naturally depend on the thinker. For myself, I am attempting, although it might totally fail, to heed this call to thinking by working with the land, by re-entering into communion with the tumult of the seasons. I won't have a "profession." Rather, by a variety of activities my wife and I undertake for their own sake (brewing, harvesting, pottery, etc.) we hope to earn enough money to continue our way of being with the earth, our future children, the word, and hopefully some remnant of "community." One could easily misconstrue this as some sort of agrarian nostalgia (or even worse, some "Heidegger inspired" peasantry), but I urge one to reconsider this, and their own position, before passing such judgment.

This is one of the best posts of yours I've ever read. I am very impressed by your honesty and integrity and how well you understand my crisis. I am not kidding here either. I really get these feelings.

 

[speed]

You might just be too serious. The recognition that your life is not as important as you think it is, and that you're not as smart as you think you are, passes things away. I'm not saying stop, ignore your problems, or anything like that, but too much analysis of your own personal life as some sort of a crisis is going too far. Literature and philosophy, I grant it these are two subjects you're fond of, are alienating and potentially dangerous. It's not that cliche - oh damn, you can't learn anything from those "smart" books - but constantly having the figure of some past genius in your head while looking at others can result in nothing else than depression. You can't change the world and sort things out yourself, so you should adapt and try to enjoy the little it does offer to you, and at the same time, I don't know, think how to improve it. Or: improve yourself. Enjoy the simplicity of life, in any event. Nothing has a "meaning". You can't sit down and expect heroic deeds and philosophical epiphanies every day. Take some time off not to think it over but for not to think. The answer will not come from a philosophy forum. I'm not mocking, yes. For times such as these you have friends. And this seems like a personal crisis. To think that some brilliant idea from a 19th century French homosexual's poetry's gonna solve it is just wrong. See, distinction between a "spiritual" and a "material" life is bad. You read Tolstoy and then put the book down and go to work and you're dissatisfied, you have not read Tolstoy the way it was meant to. Ideas are not there for you to to think about it. They're for you to apply and share with others. Now I don't know it's all up to you and I wish you luck

You're far too smart and wise for your years. I must find a few lines of classical verse about the horror of self-inspection. But it is horror.

I used to write the first few pages of a "new" novel once every month or two. I would reread it the next day and think: "Goddamnit, I've basically re-written one of my favorites (Joyce, Bely, Nabokov, Gogol, etc)." Then I would burden myself with the thought of the greats and wonder how I could do something original. I;m sure this happens to everyone in any field. In most ways, I think too much thinking and knowledge is an impediment to true creation and originality.

 

[kmik]

I profoundly respect your position, Justin, but peasantry for all seems to me an impractical suggestion. Plus you've only touched the subject of occupation: do you - and I am not joking here - also ontologically love your wife and ontologically choose between vanilla and chocolate ice cream (I know it seems like I'm joking but I'm absolutely serious. According to what I understand you integrate Heidegger to everything, not as a separate idea or a "philosophy", so it must apply to anything)

I don't think knowledge is bad for your originality. I think you only learn how to write by reading others; the "good" others, that is. Except reading too much good stuff gives you fascist standards... I guess for not as well read or those who happen to like "mediocre" literature it's easier to write. Remember even Joyce wrote some crap, but maybe you should start with short stories.

 

[speed]

I profoundly respect your position, Justin, but peasantry for all seems to me an impractical suggestion. Plus you've only touched the subject of occupation: do you - and I am not joking here - also ontologically love your wife and ontologically choose between vanilla and chocolate ice cream (I know it seems like I'm joking but I'm absolutely serious. According to what I understand you integrate Heidegger to everything, not as a separate idea or a "philosophy", so it must apply to anything)

I don't think knowledge is bad for your originality. I think you only learn how to write by reading others; the "good" others, that is. Except reading too much good stuff gives you fascist standards... I guess for not as well read or those who happen to like "mediocre" literature it's easier to write. Remember even Joyce wrote some crap, but maybe you should start with short stories.

But its his perspective, his ontology, and he is comfortable with it. Thats all that matters. He has found meaning and peace in this--it doesnt matter what we think. We can only offer advice, support, share our equally flawed opinions and meanings of life.

Oh, no problem with the writing. I do write short stories.

How about you kmik? I'd love to read some of your writings.

 

[OldScratch]

I part company with the other members over the suggestions and ways of thinking they have offered thus far.

Thought and disposition (in the sense of basic attunement) are intimately related. As I understand it, being thoughtful does not mean "overcoming" or setting aside anxiety (terror in the face of what is closest) but just the opposite; thinking preserves and conserves this terror through careful, but painful, inspection (an undertaking simultaneously grounded in restraint and awe).

The replies to the upheaval speed describes are typically of two sorts: One, a softened reproach that stresses distraction and a grotesque form of coping (namely, into the very "things" and ways of being that make the belly ache). This approach will appeal to comparisons of other times and peoples, as if these sorts of crude (ontic) juxtapositions make any sense (i.e. there are starving people in China) when in fact, they fail to address the dimension of suffering altogether--our way of being, the spiritual. Our torments are the disruption of bonds and responsibility, the flight of the gods, the oppressive/suppressive machination of technological capitalism, the inability to dwell with others--to simply be. Of course, this enumeration barely touches upon the state of affairs.

This leads to the other type of response: impotent and reactionary "idealism" (ala ANUS, Corrupt, etc.). This type of response might list off some of the things I just mentioned and so appear to be in "agreement" at first glance. However, they lack the disposition to conserve this terror and flee into delusions of "revolutions", "activism", "metal culture", "pagan revivalism" and so on, while their actual lives and ways of being are little different, perhaps even sadder, than the average person. It is precisely this flight into the general, into narrative, that marks them as totally ineffective and hopeless.

How do we, or can we, stay within the sliver of middle ground between two responses that retreat from anxiety, pain, and paralysis ("realism" and "idealism"), that are actually linked and grounded in the same soil? As I have hinted before, by tending thinking, as thinking is certainly a deed. By this I do not mean a withdrawal into "books", the academic industry, or the wit and cleverness of "literary interests". Rather, it is through a basic thinking and disposition that we preserve our openness to anxiety, and hence the openness to something other than the hopeless dualism displayed in the responses to the opening post.

What form this takes will naturally depend on the thinker. For myself, I am attempting, although it might totally fail, to heed this call to thinking by working with the land, by re-entering into communion with the tumult of the seasons. I won't have a "profession." Rather, by a variety of activities my wife and I undertake for their own sake (brewing, harvesting, pottery, etc.) we hope to earn enough money to continue our way of being with the earth, our future children, the word, and hopefully some remnant of "community." One could easily misconstrue this as some sort of agrarian nostalgia (or even worse, some "Heidegger inspired" peasantry), but I urge one to reconsider this, and their own position, before passing such judgment.

Interesting. What you seem to dismiss as "impotent and reactionary idealism - ala Corrupt/ANUS, etc." is not ultimately so far removed from that which you youself pursure in terms of eking out an existence, ala your "way of being with the earth." Granted, the former may indeed employ a more bombastic approach regarding the means, but are the ends so dissimilar?


*either way, a thought-provoking post.

 

[kmik]

Interesting. What you seem to dismiss as "impotent and reactionary idealism - ala Corrupt/ANUS, etc." is not ultimately so far removed from that which you youself pursure in terms of eking out an existence, ala your "way of being with the earth." Granted, the former may indeed employ a more bombastic approach regarding the means, but are the ends so dissimilar?


*either way, a thought-provoking post.

I guess he means that ANUS supports the same "armory of values" kind of thought; as if "killing everyone with less than 120 IQ" is not "materialistic technological thinking". They support mindfulness, or something like that. Frankly, I almost always at least seem to understand what those Heideggerians are not satisfied with but never get the alternative ..

 

[kmik]

Oh, I don't write anything, not for now, at least. I get good sketches for short stories almost every day but I never feel like writing. I just don't have any really good ideas so I see no point. Once I wrote a short story, driven by the "oh shit I can write better than all this crap that's getting published", but it was horrible: filled with allusions, metaphors, symbols and whatnot almost to death but completely lacking a humane angle...

 

[speed]

Oh, I don't write anything, not for now, at least. I get good sketches for short stories almost every day but I never feel like writing. I just don't have any really good ideas so I see no point. Once I wrote a short story, driven by the "oh shit I can write better than all this crap that's getting published", but it was horrible: filled with allusions, metaphors, symbols and whatnot almost to death but completely lacking a humane angle...

Ah, you dont get any better unless you keep trying. But you're so young. And make the horribleness of the profusion of symbols, etc part of the story. It could be humorous. I wrote a story this year so over-the-top and full of outrageous symbolism, its funny. I finally revised it, and I haent bothered trying to get it published yet. I enjoyed writing it even if only a couple of people read it.

Kmik, I remember a few years ago deleting or blocking a few threads of a poster I thought was named kmik, because they didnt make sense in English. Was that you? And if so, how did you improve your English so much in such a few years?

 

[MURAI]

I don’t know (but here are some not so literary comments): a feeling of the nihilism of it all; of the many wasted hours; of whether or not I have the strength and ability to live in it for the next thirty years. What is the purpose? What is the purpose of the world? Is it even real? Why?

I dare say much of it is related to two things: love and a new job. I found love, and began totally rethinking all I held dear. I began seeing what was really important: happiness, love, laughter, sacrifice, the soul. And I switched jobs last month. I received a large raise, and was promised many things. Instead, I quickly learned I was to be little more than a secretary—a worker bee. I was interim and consulting director; I had some influence. I have none now. Still, it’s a relatively easy job. It’s not too difficult. I just find no meaning in it, or any other possible job I could make a living. I see no point in rebelling by stocking shelves or working manual labor, etc. I’ve tried it before. It’s slightly more satisfying, but the money is poor (I’m not rich), and everyone knows you don’t belong, including you. It’s also a rather banal form of rebellion these days.

So what to do? How do I maximize what is important? How do I shake this (other than obviously switching jobs)? How do I stop thinking about it? Has anyone else had a similar experience? Are we lucky we even can have these introspective thoughts when out ancestors (well, mine at least) toiled in fields for some lord, or factories for some capitalist just a few generations ago? Or am I just a dumb guy who cant accept I cant have it all?

Even though what you are trying to say here is quite personal I can some what relate. Again, it is too personal for me to give you advice that will work. Life just seems empty when you do not find you are not fulfilling ideals and feel insignificant. I can understand how this void can just make one feel weary and cynical towards life. I think most people experience conflicts like yours when it comes to general meaning of life. Many die without finding any meaning at all. The only thing like a solution is that you should at make attempts at higher meaning by working towards something. Solutions dont just come on your lap from the sky. You have to work at it and seek it.

I know most submit to careers and its guidelines for the sake of money and quit attempting in improvement within it out of fear of failure. Many get jobs to keep up bourgeois values of respectability and wealth.There are modern jobs out there that are meaningful, and even possibly you can make it more meaningful. If one finds a career to be unfulfilling and I have three options:

a. Find another job that suits your abilities and also feels like you are contributing.

b. If finding another job is too difficult and chances dont come along; keep it for the sake of making a living now. Do something fulfilling on your own time or use it to think over life options.

c. Some modern jobs are not that bad and the problem is the attitude people have towards it in general. Instead of whining about it, think about perform better or think of good ideas to improve the work. Remember the employers are paying you. If you do not want to submit to anybody at all, find a way to be financially self-sufficent.

I admit most of my life haphazardly and I was barely thinking of future career plans. But now I have, at least, vague career goals and what I want to do in life. I too feel doubt in my own strength and abilities and feel uneasy about future problems I have to face. But, conflict and pain are conditions of life and they will always be there anyway whether is minor or major. Your average modern man might just push unpleasant problems away with the TV set and go with the easy route. I took a part time job doing manual labor for a slaughterhouse. I worked from around 9-15 hours a day doing repetitive, physical labor, which was tiring but at least unlike some jobs it involves some contributing. I did not choose this job for being rebellious or whatever, but because I was unemployed for 9 weeks and the chance came my way so I took it. They offered me a job, and they were the ones paying me so I felt should do the job and not whine about it.

On the modern job, yes, some of it is pretty stupid. There are jobs where you contribute little, and all one has to do is have some post secondary education and submit a good looking resume. Who is going to become better in character when you get decent money for easy work? People realize that even when you do put in effort, it doesnt matter, when the pay doesnt change much and the work doesnt get recognized. And, some products and services arent about making it about quality but its to make a quick buck simply just to sell an image or mass-produce cheap products. Work will be more meaningful if it isnt just solely for the money, but a sense of quality and integrity. Pay should be like an award for good work done.

Speed, I am not going to say I am the perfect character but life has its struggles and it is not easy. Good luck, at least work towards an ideal and one must face unpleasant things instead of just running from it.

 

[speed]

Even though what you are trying to say here is quite personal I can some what relate. Again, it is too personal for me to give you advice that will work. Life just seems empty when you do not find you are not fulfilling ideals and feel insignificant. I can understand how this void can just make one feel weary and cynical towards life. I think most people experience conflicts like yours when it comes to general meaning of life. Many die without finding any meaning at all. The only thing like a solution is that you should at make attempts at higher meaning by working towards something. Solutions dont just come on your lap from the sky. You have to work at it and seek it.

I know most submit to careers and its guidelines for the sake of money and quit attempting in improvement within it out of fear of failure. Many get jobs to keep up bourgeois values of respectability and wealth.There are modern jobs out there that are meaningful, and even possibly you can make it more meaningful. If one finds a career to be unfulfilling and I have three options:

a. Find another job that suits your abilities and also feels like you are contributing.

b. If finding another job is too difficult and chances dont come along; keep it for the sake of making a living now. Do something fulfilling on your own time or use it to think over life options.

c. Some modern jobs are not that bad and the problem is the attitude people have towards it in general. Instead of whining about it, think about perform better or think of good ideas to improve the work. Remember the employers are paying you. If you do not want to submit to anybody at all, find a way to be financially self-sufficent.

I admit most of my life haphazardly and I was barely thinking of future career plans. But now I have, at least, vague career goals and what I want to do in life. I too feel doubt in my own strength and abilities and feel uneasy about future problems I have to face. But, conflict and pain are conditions of life and they will always be there anyway whether is minor or major. Your average modern man might just push unpleasant problems away with the TV set and go with the easy route. I took a part time job doing manual labor for a slaughterhouse. I worked from around 9-15 hours a day doing repetitive, physical labor, which was tiring but at least unlike some jobs it involves some contributing. I did not choose this job for being rebellious or whatever, but because I was unemployed for 9 weeks and the chance came my way so I took it. They offered me a job, and they were the ones paying me so I felt should do the job and not whine about it.

On the modern job, yes, some of it is pretty stupid. There are jobs where you contribute little, and all one has to do is have some post secondary education and submit a good looking resume. Who is going to become better in character when you get decent money for easy work? People realize that even when you do put in effort, it doesnt matter, when the pay doesnt change much and the work doesnt get recognized. And, some products and services arent about making it about quality but its to make a quick buck simply just to sell an image or mass-produce cheap products. Work will be more meaningful if it isnt just solely for the money, but a sense of quality and integrity. Pay should be like an award for good work done.

Speed, I am not going to say I am the perfect character but life has its struggles and it is not easy. Good luck, at least work towards an ideal and one must face unpleasant things instead of just running from it.

I thank you for your heart-felt comments.

I have gotten much better in the last few days. I dont feel the pain and agony of it every second of my day; but rather I'm a bit numb and have convinced myself change is on the short-term horizon. I think this thread played a part in my at least getting through the days. I suppose one could say I have taken a Stoic/Epictetus tact, of not worrying over things one cannot control--and much of this, including the world, I cannot control. Thank you all. Montaigne's On Presumption and parts of his Apology to Raymond Sebond essays helped a bit too, and I;d recommend them to anyone.