Explination please from you history lot

MORGAVID

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Mar 17, 2006
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Alot of people of this forrum seem knowlegeble history wise, so decided to ask here.

Been listening to "High Water Mark" By Iced Earth lately, really love it, at first didnt know what war it was talking about. Was soon to find its about the American Civil War, a war that iv always been led to believe was quite a boring not very interesting war, and the Americans only make a big beal about it cause they have jack shit history to their name.

Anyway, someone give me the basic points of what happens in American Civil please, why it started?, any interesting battles?, "Pirckerings charge" or whatever, and who the hel is this *General Lee*. Been reading bits on wikipedia buts not really makin much sense. All iv got so far is the southers had a cooler flag :rolleyes:

More on, a line from the song is "Yankee cannon gunning us down", being a welsh bach, i always thought a yankee was just an american, so why do americans call each other yankees>?
 
More on, a line from the song is "Yankee cannon gunning us down", being a welsh bach, i always thought a yankee was just an american, so why do americans call each other yankees>?


I’m a history buff, but an ancient history buff. I don’t have a lot of interest in American history. The history of the early days of America is interesting to me, but I live/grew up in the Boston area and that stuff is all over the place so I think that’s the reason why. American history after the American Revolution doesn’t really interest me.

Anyway I can answer your “yankee” question. Some people from the South refer to people from the North as “yankees”. I know that all Americans are referred to as “yankees” as well (I believe the origin of that is the song “Yankee Doodle”). At some point around the time of the Civil War Southerners (those who live south of the Mason-Dixon Line) began calling Northerners (those who live north of the Mason-Dixon Line) “Yankees”. Why I don’t know, but to this day some Southerners still refer to Northerners as yankees. Obviously it’s not a term of endearment, but I think it’s probably more tongue-in-cheek.

IMO it gets down to the fact that America is such a large country. Where you live (region-wise) says more about you than the fact that you are American. There’s the obvious difference like accents, but people from the East Coast are different than people from the West Coast; people are different from the Midwest as opposed to the Northeast as opposed to the South, etc., etc.

The South does have a much cooler flag BTW!
 
I once heared Yankees came from Jan Kees (which is the most standard dutch name one can find) which sounds the same when pronounced english (dutch pronounced it sounds Yahwn Kaeys or something :lol:)
 
Yep, Yankee was originally a native nickname for the Dutch settlers of New Amsterdam (now New York).

As for the (American) Civil War, it's quite frankly complicated. The origins were a multitude of issues. Slavery, state vs federal rights, Industrial Revolution displacing the "old guard powerful". And as for it being boring, well, every other war we've been in put together still doesn't equal the casualties of the Civil War, at least in terms of Americans. It also was one of the wars that set the stage for modern warfare, with the invention of the repeating rifle (incidentally by a relative of my family :p) and the submarine,l among other things.

Pickett's Charge was arguably the Confederate forces biggest tactical error of the war, where about 12500 men charged across a 3/4mile(1.25km) field in the face of heavy artillery and infantry fire. Around 6500 of them were killed, wounded, or captured. The Union forces took about 1500 casualties.
General Lee was the Confederate Armies Commander-in-Chief. His story is also rather complicated.

And yeah, as Joe said, you European folk sometimes forget how large the US is. It's nearly big as Europe is, if a bit more homogenized. And while regional differences are fading, it's still pretty easy to figure out where someone is from, especially when they talk. Everyone knows I'm from New England as soon as I start talking, hehe.
 
I'm a big war history buff so here's my little summary of the Civil War.

There is a common misconception that the Civil War was fought to free the slaves. That actually had little to do with it until President Lincoln had the idea that freeing the Southern slaves would produce more fighters loyal to the Union cause. However the country was divided along clear slavery vs. non-slavery lines. It had to do with property rights (property meaning slaves). Southern plantation owners were upset with Lincoln because they knew he was against many bills that the South felt they needed to secure their "property". Lincoln was also opposed to the spreading of slavery into any expansion territories even if they were decidedly "Southern".

When Lincoln took office South Carolina immediately seceded, prompting other Southern states to follow suit until they eventually drafted their own constitution and elected Jefferson Davis to be president of the new Confederacy. Lincoln however was a shrewd politician and although he knew that war was likely to happen he was reluctant to fire the first shot even though you can argue that he goaded the South into firing first. The first shots eventually came with the bombardment of Fort Sumter, a Union held fort in Confederate territory.

The three names that most people hear when someone talks about the Civil War are Lincoln, Grant, and Lee. Robert E. Lee was the commanding general of the Southern troops. And while for a long time the Union elected generals who didn't take the South seriously Lee would be causing serious damage even to the point of coming within miles of Washington D.C. The union's Eastern Theatre generals were horrible, while in the Western Theatre General Ulysses S. Grant was the only real commander the North had that was willing to fight toe to toe with the South. So eventually Lincoln in his frustration appointed Grant commander of all Union forces and gave him the task of hunting down Lee's army.

Before that though probably the most famous battle of the Civil War (and widely regarded as the War's turning point) was the battle of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. Deep within Union territory, this battle was do or die for the Northerners because if they lost Lee's army would go unchecked throughout all of the North. This battle also had the highest casualties of any battle in the war. This is where the doomed "Pickett's charge" took place. On the third day the South decided to make a direct frontal assault of the Union lines. In charge of this assault was General George Pickett. The tragedy of this charge is that battlefield strategies had not yet caught up with modern advances in weapon engineering. So a frontal assault with ranks of soldiers lined up shoulder to shoulder was no competition for the new cannon technology. Most lethal to this charge was the use of a type of scattershot that resembled a grenade rather than a simple roundshot cannonball.

The Union went on to win this battle and force the Confederacy out of Northern territory and effectively ended any significant advance into Union states. Afterwards Grant employed a scorched earth campaign, believing that in order to win against the South he had to destroy their economic base as well as their army and government. He started an invasion campaign by assigning most of his generals to march through the South and capture various cities while burning everything along the way. The most recognized of these being "Sherman's March". He was ordered to take Atlanta, Georgia and march East until he reached the sea, utterly destroying everything he passed. Grant eventually caught up with Lee's exhausted army and a treaty ending all hostilities and dissolving the Confederacy was signed by Grant and Lee at Appomattox Courthouse in Virginia on April 9, 1865. Interesting to note in this treaty was Grant's willingness (indeed his suggestion) to fully pardon all those loyal to the South, including it's military men and generals. The generosity of this gesture was fully endorsed by Lincoln, who sought to immediately heal wounds between North and South states. Lincoln sent massive aid to the South to help it rebuild.

The worst part of the war was probably the fact that fighting got so brutal, on a large part tributed to General Grant. When you hear people saying it was "fathers against sons" and all that stuff they really aren't lying. Most of the commanding officers on both sides knew each other personally as they had all attended West Point Academy. There were even Southern generals with Northern sympathies and the other way around. There was one story I think from the battle of Gettysburg that a Confederate general (forget his name) was ordered to make an advance against a corner of the Union line but was mortally wounded and lay under a Union cannon. The defender of this charge was General Hancock I believe, who was close friends with the dying Southern general and upon finding his dying friend wept bitterly. His soldiers were all taken aback by this and many noted it in their journals expressing great remorse for the killing of their own countrymen.

That's about it. Don't get me started on stuff like this cus I could talk forever if given the chance. :loco:
 
I'm a big war history buff so here's my little summary of the Civil War.

There is a common misconception that the Civil War was fought to free the slaves.



The potential expansion of slave states, as a consequence of the Mexican American War, was the primary cause of the Civil War. Abolishing slavery may not have been Lincoln's original intention, but the expansion of slavery, or rather, the prevention of it, was the reason the North and South ended up at war. You can argue that in essence the slavery issue had to do with state's rights, Northern abolitionism, etc., but slavery was the core issue.

"Freeing the slaves" may not have been in Lincoln's mind to begin with, but it was a natural consequence of a war that was fought over slavery.
 
I'm gunna go paark the caa and then eat some chowdah!

LOL. I grew up in MA so I never really noticed it. I lived in the NYC area for 7 years (which has its own special accent) and moved back. Now the “Boston Accent” makes me crack up when I hear it.

I will confess to saying things like “wicked”, or “pissah” or “wicked fuckin pissah” on occasion though.
 
Very nice summary Bates, but Anglorfin definitely takes the cake for the amount of information presented :oops:



The potential expansion of slave states, as a consequence of the Mexican American War, was the primary cause of the Civil War. Abolishing slavery may not have been Lincoln's original intention, but the expansion of slavery, or rather, the prevention of it, was the reason the North and South ended up at war. You can argue that in essence the slavery issue had to do with state's rights, Northern abolitionism, etc., but slavery was the core issue.

"Freeing the slaves" may not have been in Lincoln's mind to begin with, but it was a natural consequence of a war that was fought over slavery.

Keeping the states unified was Lincolns original intention; the problem however arose when the subject of states rights and use of slavery became relevant to the changing economic times. It was the threat to the South's economy (i.e. the use of slavery) from the North that in fact caused the secession.

Some perfect examples to show that the war was NOT started due to slavery are: the fact that states which maintained the usage of slavery (ex. Virgina, Tennessee, Arkansas, North Carolina) were still initially a part of the union. Another example was the proposed Corwin Amendment, which would protect states rights from the federal government. In fact, the only reason some states left the union was because the North ignored the statements made by said states about going through their territory in order to invade the South (they wished to stay neutral, and one cannot stay neutral if you are being used as a means).

I still think it is funny that both sides justified their rights according to the constitution; Lincoln using Jefferson's statement of "all men are created equal" as justification for the limiting of slavery in territories, and the South with their right to revolt embedded within the Declaration of Independence (by self-determination).
 
Pickett's Charge was an event that occurred during the battle of Gettysburg, which is in Pennsylvania. Its a great place to visit, tons of interesting history!

With a visit to the battlefield you can see how Pickett's charge was doomed.
 
The potential expansion of slave states, as a consequence of the Mexican American War, was the primary cause of the Civil War. Abolishing slavery may not have been Lincoln's original intention, but the expansion of slavery, or rather, the prevention of it, was the reason the North and South ended up at war. You can argue that in essence the slavery issue had to do with state's rights, Northern abolitionism, etc., but slavery was the core issue.

"Freeing the slaves" may not have been in Lincoln's mind to begin with, but it was a natural consequence of a war that was fought over slavery.

Let me say this, a Civil War would never be fought over slavery. The funny thing is, when slaves escaped from down here below the Mason Dixon line, they thought they were safe. But if there was a reward for the returning the of a slave, the North would hand the slave over in a heartbeat. The North didn't care much for slaves. Lincoln wanted to eventually send them back to there homes in Africa. But of course he was assassinated before he could.

Also, take in mind that history is written by the winners. Most things you'll find about the war, is written by the North. Come down to the south, even farther south then me where there are still plenty of Americans flying the confederate flag, they'll tell you how it was. Chances are, there ancestors fought in the war.
 
True but you still gotta listen to both sides to get a more accurate conclusion. It's just like World War II. What you hear is about how evil the National Socialist are. Not true. The main goal and purpose they had has been twisted horribly by the Allies and the Jews. I would go into it more but this isn't the thread for it. Just saying the winning side is way more bias then the losing side. The losing of course will be bias because they are angry. Lately I tend to go for the losing side cause I know how much America and other powerful countries twist history. I think it was the 60's, they started changing what was written in school text books and changing what really happened in the Civil War. Why, I don't know. I find it to be ridiculous.
 
I don't understand how the creator of this thread can say the american civil war is boring. i find it amazing to read about.
For me, the most interesting "modern" wars are both world wars, the american civil war and the napoleonic wars (more precisely, the 7 wars during republican/imperial france.. cause there were 7 coalitions.. well gotta study it to get it).

Anyway, most of the important lines were said here. I heard that the Union also decided to free slaves knowing that the other strong countries of the period (mainly england and france) wouldn't side with the south because of this slave issue.

Also a famous battle which wasn't mentioned is the first battle of Bull Run. Southerners almost won the war in the first year, the north was too confident in its victory. Quite a story.

EDIT: by the way, the movie Gone With the Wind which takes place during the civil war period is one of the best movies ever. Scarlette O'Hara, the main character... what a beauty :p it was like love at first sight for me ^^