Floyd Rose Question

[IrfaanSE801]

Hey guys,
I have an ESP EX 350. The floyd is non recessed (can't pull it back), but is there anyway I can make it recessed where I'm able to make those harmonic screams? Like route the cavity a little deeper? Gonna take it to a tech to do it, I just wanna know if it's possible.

- Irfaan -

 

[xenophobe]

Well, having a recessed or non-recessed floyd should have little to do if you can do pull-ups on the trem. Check to make sure the trem hasn't been blocked... That's the only reason I can think that you'd not be able to pull up on the bar....

If it hasn't been, recessing it won't make a difference, and you'd need to adjust the neck angle from 6 degrees (I think... to flush)...

Inside the route for the trem, you just may need to remove some material... either way I'd suggest you take it to a qualified tech or luthier.

 

[Sunbane]

Besides, a tremolo bridge doesn't have anything to do with harmonic squeals. Listen to Zakk Wylde - he's a master of the squeal, yet he's playing on a fixed bridge Les Paul.

/Sun'

 

[kamikaze]

Ah yes, Thank the man or woman, That invented the piched artificial harmonic!! Zack rules!

 

[IrfaanSE801]

Well, the pinch harmonics don't ring out as long as say Dimebag's scream on Cemetary Gates, or Alexi Laiho's (well, choose any song on this one). Those are short and high pitched, while the harmonics I'm trying to pull off are long as higher pitched. On my guitar I can pull the bar back, but it dosen't go far enough where I'm able to get the harmonic scream to get to that point I like. My friend owns a Washburn DIme 333 and the bar goes back so far I'm able to have her scream louder. Thnx though guys, gonna take it to a tech and have him take a look. Dunno if I'll put much money into this guitar, I'm almost done saving for the RR1 that I always wanted.

 

[Ultima Ibanez Overlord]

I don't think you understood what he meant, Sunbane. He's talking about playing artificial and natural harmonics and then doing an up-pull on the trem so that the pitch rises.
And to my knowledge, if the trem isn't recessed, it will make a difference. Check to see if a visible part of the unit is touching the guitar body.
If it is, you'll know that that's what is causing the problem.

A short horror story, though:
My friend owns a Hamer. He bought an Ibanez Lo-Pro-Edge for it and took it to a guitar store. They said in the store that they could make the recess in the Hamer bigger, sink the trem unit and properly install the LPE as it is installed on Ibanez guitars.
They made a horrible job of the recess, didn't sink the trem unit very far at all, and totally devalued his instrument.
If you are taking it to a "professional", make sure it's someone that has a very good reputation for dealing with things like this.
My friend had to pay a lot of money to have what effectively fucked his guitar up.

 

[IrfaanSE801]

Oh that's really not cool. But ya Ultima, that's the exactly the problem. I don't know of any techs in the NY area. Might know one, but dunno his reputation on how good he is. Never took any of my guitars to a technician before. Any ideas on how to go about this? Another thing that sux is I only know one other person who plays guitar and he just started.

 

[Sunbane]

Ah, if you put it that way...

One thing though: If you're having low action, there's a limit to how far you can pull back on the bar before the strings fret out against the upper frets. On my RR3, I can only go up about 3 half steps before that happens.

I'm not the biggest Pantera fan, so I never bothered to look up what techniques or equipment Darrel uses, but I would guess that he was using a whammy pedal for cemetary gates. Feel free to correct me if you know better though. =)

/Sun'

 

[Ultima Ibanez Overlord]

@Sunbane: I know what you're saying. The trick is to find out what it is you want to do, and have someone who knows what they're doing set your instrument up to achieve it. I had my guitar set up in Thailand where I bought it. There was a guy who'd been to the MI in California and he set my guitar up beautifully. I've had it for 4 years now and I've never had any problems or any adjustments made to it.
I read an article on Dimebag and he wasn't using a Whammy pedal for those parts you're mentioning. He is simply dipping his trem, playing a natural harmonic (the second or third fret on the G string, I believe) and letting the bar up to it's natural position and then pulling it up way past it's natural position.

@IrfanSE801: The best advice I can give in a situation like that is to hit the music stores near by and see who gets recommended. Or, check out local manufacturers, check out their guitars and see what you think of their work.
But, I admit I don't know what you should do. Sorry, man.

 

[IrfaanSE801]

Hey Ultima,
Your advice (and knowledge on this) was great so far. Thx a bunch. Gonna check out a few of the shops nearby and see if they can recommend anyone to me.

- Irfaan -

 

[xenophobe]

Well, like I said, recessed or non-recessed has little to do with how much you can pull up on the bar. I have several non-recessed Jacksons that will pull up higher than my recessed Jacksons.

It's about the amount of routing that is done on the bridge side of the trem cavity by the spring block that has to do with how much travel your trem will actually have, NOT that it's recessed or non-recessed. UNLESS it is the baseplate of the trem that is bottoming out against the body. IF that's the case, then adding a partial recess may help.

Making a NR trem guitar recessed, adds a whole bunch of complications, like adjusting the neck pocket angle. If it is a neck thru guitar, forget about it.

Adjusting the interior route, where the spring block is bottoming out is the TRUE solution.

 

[IrfaanSE801]

Ah crap. I'm lookin at it now and I'm kinda seein what everyone's talking about now. Gonna take it to a tech and see how it goes, but if it'll be complicated and costly, I'm just holdin out for the RR1. It'll only be nother cple of months wait. Gonna take it next weekend and post an update to see if everything's going right

 

[Ultima Ibanez Overlord]

Originally posted by xenophobe
Well, like I said, recessed or non-recessed has little to do with how much you can pull up on the bar. I have several non-recessed Jacksons that will pull up higher than my recessed Jacksons.

It's about the amount of routing that is done on the bridge side of the trem cavity by the spring block that has to do with how much travel your trem will actually have, NOT that it's recessed or non-recessed. UNLESS it is the baseplate of the trem that is bottoming out against the body. IF that's the case, then adding a partial recess may help.

Making a NR trem guitar recessed, adds a whole bunch of complications, like adjusting the neck pocket angle. If it is a neck thru guitar, forget about it.

Adjusting the interior route, where the spring block is bottoming out is the TRUE solution.

I know what you're saying, Xenophobe. I remember encountering this problem on my Washburn N2. I assumed it was the recess only to discover it was the part of the bridge inside the backplate that was touching wood, and not the tail of the bridge.
But there are cases of it being the recess, too.
*Forgive my lack of knowing the part's names*
Rhino, for example, a relatively small guitar manufacturer, produce some "super strats" that have original Floyd Rose trems. They don't recess the guitars for the unit, and the alan key posts at the back/underside of the units actually come into contact with the guitar body, preventing it from being pulled back very far.
That's at least one case of this being so.
I sort of assumed that this is what IrfaanSE801 was talking about.
I know, I know......Assumption - the mother of all fuck ups