Green Day remasters 2012 YT
- Thread starter MetalMiller
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ArthurD
Member
I saw this when gazing at the End of Loudness War Group on Facebook.
Amazing. The second one is 100x better to my ears, it feels like a band.
Amazing. The second one is 100x better to my ears, it feels like a band.
Nimvi
Member
This is a very welcome development. Altough I do think a certain (heavy) amount of compression is part of the modern rock- and metalsound, the over the top limiting and clipping doesn't have any positive effect for my tastes.
Whenever I turn on a radio nowadays, and hear SWISH SWISH instead of the sound of a cymbal being hit, I feel sickened and want to turn it off again. And even if people can't pick out details like that (altough they aren't subtle at all as far as I perceive them...), I do hope they notice that fatigue sets in faster when listening to stuff like that.
Not to mention the almost complete lack of buildup to a climax that it gives dynamically. The way I see it, there would be nothing awesome about a mountain if the entire earth had more or less the same altitude.
Whenever I turn on a radio nowadays, and hear SWISH SWISH instead of the sound of a cymbal being hit, I feel sickened and want to turn it off again. And even if people can't pick out details like that (altough they aren't subtle at all as far as I perceive them...), I do hope they notice that fatigue sets in faster when listening to stuff like that.
Not to mention the almost complete lack of buildup to a climax that it gives dynamically. The way I see it, there would be nothing awesome about a mountain if the entire earth had more or less the same altitude.
Trevoire520
Member
Saw this the other week, what really surprised me was that the original master was at -4dB RMS!!!! 
While no doubt the remaster sounds WAY better, they're saying that the new remaster is at -10dB RMS, which I would still consider a pretty loud master to be honest! It's really the limit of where I'm willing to push my masters as I feel by this point you've already sacrificed some punch and sound quality for the sake of loudness.
While no doubt the remaster sounds WAY better, they're saying that the new remaster is at -10dB RMS, which I would still consider a pretty loud master to be honest! It's really the limit of where I'm willing to push my masters as I feel by this point you've already sacrificed some punch and sound quality for the sake of loudness.
crillemannen
Member
Saw this the other week, what really surprised me was that the original master was at -4dB RMS!!!!
While no doubt the remaster sounds WAY better, they're saying that the new remaster is at -10dB RMS, which I would still consider a pretty loud master to be honest! It's really the limit of where I'm willing to push my masters as I feel by this point you've already sacrificed some punch and sound quality for the sake of loudness.
Well then it is probably you who aren't that good at mastering
-10db RMS isn't that bad. I think when you go under -6db RMS is where it starts to go really bad. -4RMS though is crazy, probably one of the highest values i've seen. I always thought When daylight dies with KsE was loud as hell and that one is "only" -5db RMS or so. Pushing it another db sounds crazy.I like limiting, adds glue and punch if you do it at modest settings that is.
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
-4db RMS doens't mean much as a number, depends on many factors (how the RMS is being calculated, etc)... What's -4db might be -7db on your meters.
pikachu69
mixomatic 2000
Well then it is probably you who aren't that good at mastering
I like limiting, adds glue and punch if you do it at modest settings that is.
Really?
I dont think it means hes not good at mastering at all. Quite the opposite. Once a mix hits -11 to -10db rms the effects become rather obvious to my ears. anything over -9db rms to me kills a mix, even in metal.
KsE is not at -5db rms, more around -9db to -8.5db rms.
^^^ This.
I think alot of people on here get the rms information from unusual places and need to consider that others systems may report other rms levels.
I always use Sound Forge to check levels and since I have always used it (including analysing other mixes) I have a good sence of where my mixes sit compared to other commercial mixes.
The number I am quoting is the overall rms reading. I realise that certain louder parts of songs can reach higher rms levels.
Why is RMS metering seemingly not standardized? It's kind of silly to have that as a referencing tool, but you don't really know if it's accurate or not depending on which one you use. Is there a list anywhere of plug-ins that show absolutely correct RMS? Or is it a crapshoot?
2ndly, and this is personal preference of course, sometimes I do prefer a slammed mix to a more dynamic one. Depends on the band/music/etc., but this Green Day example, for instance, I liked how the original was slammed, the sound it had. Not that I don't like the more dynamic re-master, but I didn't have a problem with the original master either.
2ndly, and this is personal preference of course, sometimes I do prefer a slammed mix to a more dynamic one. Depends on the band/music/etc., but this Green Day example, for instance, I liked how the original was slammed, the sound it had. Not that I don't like the more dynamic re-master, but I didn't have a problem with the original master either.
tgs
Elder
Morgan C
MAX LOUD PRESETS¯\(°_o)/¯
waltz mastering
Member
+1 The difference in the two meter readings that are 3 dB's apart comes from whether the meter is set for a full scale square wave at 0 dBfs or a full scale sine wave set at 0dBfs (AES 17). Some meters that are set AES 17 are the TT dynamic range meter, SSL, and Euphonix meters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBFS
waltz mastering
Member
In other remastering news... Rage is going to release a remaster of their first album.. Why fuck with something that's nearly perfect?
Nimvi
Member
Yea, that's the other side of the coin with such initiatives. The general idea seems to be "new is better".
Ah well, it won't do any harm I guess. Might even be nice
Clark Kent
Member
- Jan 23, 2011
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A bit off-topic but: Ozone or FG-X will both make a song that loud with minimum colorization. Sure when you "see" it on the meters it sounds different but blindfolded... it's a whole different story. People seem to be forgetting that the majority of people listen to music through radio/soundcloud/Spotify/iTunes etc. and if there would be no loudness war, you'd have to be riding a volume fader of your own all the time.
I do agree that more dynamics is better for sure but people are always bashing loudness war without taking to account why it's there in the first place. It has it's positives and negatives.
I do agree that more dynamics is better for sure but people are always bashing loudness war without taking to account why it's there in the first place. It has it's positives and negatives.
Trevoire520
Member
With a fairly basic, widespread loudness compensation built into all music devices would solve that easily. Then we could make masters that sound their best rather than just smashing things for loudness.
egan.
daylightdies.com
That was a proposed standard for dvd-audio but I think it died on the vine with that format. Certainly it would be easy to set an RMS - target with gain compensation in either direction. The issue is one of how you calculate RMS. The more dynamic the music is the more likely the loud parts are to be even louder depending on your measurement window for RMS.
One of the things that sucks with the super loud stuff is that cheap converters shit the bed with high RMS in a way that expensive ones don't. So the audible clipping gets demonstrably worse on an ipod than it was in the studio.
pikachu69
mixomatic 2000
I disagree. I always use my ears when adjusting my final limter, close my eyes and SLOWLY turn up the gain until it sounds bad to my ears and then back it down, then look. I never get past -10db without stopping and am always disapointed by this lol as I want to master loud but it ruins what I end up loving about my mix most of the time. I use FG-X.
Clark Kent
Member
- Jan 23, 2011
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I guess the 2-3 glue comps that I use give me those few extra debibels. And a GClip inbetween somewhere sure helps... but I feel like it's the snare and guitar that start losing their tone first when limiting so I mainly concentrate on that.
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