Guitars doesn't stand out in mix, tons of layers?

I

insideac

Member
Mar 3, 2008
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Actually, I can't get anything in the mix to really stand out. I recorded using Line 6's Metal Shop, and did 3 different guitar tracks, each double track, for a total of 6 guitar tracks, figuring it would make the guitars nice and clear. The recording can be heard here www.myspace.com/Convulsiaband and the song I'd like to perfect is "Angelkiller".

Here is what I did to record:

Lft Gtr: Diamond Plate, Tube Screamer, 87% Drive, 55% Bass, 93% Mid, %50 Treb, %60 Presence, %60 Volume

Mid Gtr: Missisippi Criminal, Tube Screamer, %70 Drive, %50 Bass, %90 Mid, %50 Treb, %60 Presence and Volume

Rgt Gtr: Treadplate, Tube Screamer, %70 Drive, %50 Bass, %100 Mid, %50 Treb, %50 Presence and Volume


Any tips to make this sound clearer would be MUCH appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
I probably can't give you any production tips as I'm struggling with that myself at the moment, but the one piece of advice I can give you is it's going to be difficult for anybody to help you if all they have to listen to is a low-fi myspace clip. Pretty much nothing at that bitrate has any clarity to begin with. Upload a high res copy to droopbox or similar. My 2 cents. Just tryin to help.
 
"Actually, I can't get anything in the mix to really stand out."
Everything is too loud. Don't mix as loud.

See ahjteam's tutorial about how to get your tracks larger for basic guidelines of mixing. Don't master that loud either, there's some SERIOUS clipping going on.

What's your panning on the guitars? May I suggest high passing every track that's not totally at the left at about 200hz, and the totally left and right ones at about 100hz.

Left : 100L, 80L
Middle : 30L, 30R
Right : 80R, 80L

If the guitars are really double-tracked that is, if you just copied the track, it won't work out so well, it'll just be louder.

What you could do is send all the individual tracks here for someone to mix and see where's the problem.

Voice seems to have too much low-mids in by the way, as if it were recorded by a crappy mic.
 
One more thing, maybe I can help after all lol. Is that center guitar a lead or just an additional rhythm?

If it's a rhythm it's probably one of your issues right there. You've completely mucked up the stereo image of your guitars. It's hurting you far more than helping. If it's a lead than disregard this.
 
ARGH THE CLIPPING. OH GODDAMN. DON'T MIX AND MASTER THAT LOUD.

Your guitars' stereo image is probably fucked as ruckus328 said, but everything is so loud I practically can't tell if a guitar's on the side or in the center.
 
P-E said:
"Actually, I can't get anything in the mix to really stand out."
Everything is too loud. Don't mix as loud.

See ahjteam's tutorial about how to get your tracks larger for basic guidelines of mixing. Don't master that loud either, there's some SERIOUS clipping going on.

What's your panning on the guitars? May I suggest high passing every track that's not totally at the left at about 200hz, and the totally left and right ones at about 100hz.

Left : 100L, 80L
Middle : 30L, 30R
Right : 80R, 80L

If the guitars are really double-tracked that is, if you just copied the track, it won't work out so well, it'll just be louder.

What you could do is send all the individual tracks here for someone to mix and see where's the problem.
Click to expand...


Did you mean to put that second track on the right panning as left? So the right track will only have one guitar and the left will have 3? Right now I had the panning as:

R %80,25
L %80, 25
Mid, 0, 0

And by double track I mean, its three different takes, but each take recorded to two tracks. Who can I send it to? Thanks for the advice so far!




ruckus328 said:
One more thing, maybe I can help after all lol. Is that center guitar a lead or just an additional rhythm?

If it's a rhythm it's probably one of your issues right there. You've completely mucked up the stereo image of your guitars. It's hurting you far more than helping. If it's a lead than disregard this.
Click to expand...



Shit, yes its a rhythm LOL. Wow, Im gonna get right on that! And yes I did mix and master pretty loud, I thought everything would be too quiet if I kept all the volumes low, but perhaps keeping everything high had all the tracks fighting to be clear
 
insideac said:
Did you mean to put that second track on the right panning as left? So the right track will only have one guitar and the left will have 3? Right now I had the panning as:

R %80,25
L %80, 25
Mid, 0, 0

And by double track I mean, its three different takes, but each take recorded to two tracks. Who can I send it to? Thanks for the advice so far!
Click to expand...

You can just put it in the Rate My Mix section, with dropbox (download it, it's ace) links to an archive containing all the files, and many people will mix it. I'd do it, for fun.


I didn't mean that, I meant to have the
first guitar (left) : left 100% and left 80%
second guitar (right) : right 100% and right 80%
middle guitar (middle) : 30% left, 30% right

Would probably make your mix breathe a lot more.

EDIT : scrap that, put only one take left at 100%, the other guitars' take right at 100% and the middle one straight in the middle. Having the same take duplicated won't help, it'll just fuck things up more. That's why they should have all been recorded 2 times (which might have been overkill, considering the number of layers).
 
oddly enough, there's some brutality to be had with the everything-in-a-blender effect you have going on.
 
P-E said:
You can just put it in the Rate My Mix section, with dropbox (download it, it's ace) links to an archive containing all the files, and many people will mix it. I'd do it, for fun.


I didn't mean that, I meant to have the
first guitar (left) : left 100% and left 80%
second guitar (right) : right 100% and right 80%
middle guitar (middle) : 30% left, 30% right

Would probably make your mix breathe a lot more.

EDIT : scrap that, put only one take left at 100%, the other guitars' take right at 100% and the middle one straight in the middle. Having the same take duplicated won't help, it'll just fuck things up more. That's why they should have all been recorded 2 times (which might have been overkill, considering the number of layers).
Click to expand...


Ok Ill download that, and post in that section so keep an eye out for it in a few min! And should I record each track separately then? So record two rights, two lefts, and two mids?


-J- said:
oddly enough, there's some brutality to be had with the everything-in-a-blender effect you have going on.
Click to expand...


LMFAO Thanks!
 
Why track it six times? If they're all playing the same rhythm part, why waste time and mix-space on a set of center tracks? 100/80/80/100 is more than enough.
 
No they arent, I had the left and right guitars playing a different melody, hamonized, but you cant tell, which is why I need to make everything clearer :(
 
P-E said:
ARGH THE CLIPPING. OH GODDAMN. DON'T MIX AND MASTER THAT LOUD.

Your guitars' stereo image is probably fucked as ruckus328 said, but everything is so loud I practically can't tell if a guitar's on the side or in the center.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think you need to unfuck your mastering first then work on everything else
 
seriously, start from the beginning.
Just use double tracked guitars panned 100l & 100r
a bass guitar
drums
vocals
and dont let it clip
NOTHING on the master bus / no "mastering"

Just do it as simple as possible. If there's 6 sloppy played rhythm tracks with gain at 10, with panning all over the place and digital clipping from the whole track everywhere you just can't hear a single thing.

then post another sample... and if there's even a little bit of clipping I'll punch you in the nuts. :lol:
 
ugh get rid of the different amp tones on left/right.

Use the same on both sides. If you want to blend in a different amp, just double up the same tracks with a different amp setting.
 
I think your problems really start with the fact that you didn't recognize that myspace songs sound considerably worse than a .wav or even a 192kbps MP3.

Other than missing all the basic knowledge rock/metal production (I agree with FloridaRolf: start with a totally stripped down mix!) I think you are lacking the "hearing" skills necessary for a clear mix. This is of course typical for beginners, but it will take a bunch of years and countless mixes to get past that.

Best way to do it is to get a few good books (like Bobby Owsinski's "Mixing Engineer's Handbook", Gibson's "The Art Of Mixing" and Mike Stavrou's "Mixing With Your Mind") and also start using reference mixes to compare your mix with (make sure to lower the volume on those reference mixes so that they are adjusted to your mix!).

Oh, yea: the intro is pretty good at setting a mood/atmosphere! Don't know if it's put together from different samples or if you just ripped it from a movie?
 
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