How do you all record vocal layers/overdubs?

[schwinginbatman]

My band is going at a second demo right now (the first blows hard and we play none of the material from it now), and although we're doing the guitars right now, I want to establish how I'm gonna do the vocals before I get to that point. We've been moving in more of a power/thrash direction, and as such there's a lot more emphasis on vocals. Before, what I've done when I add a vocal overdub was to just do the main track, then another one, both centered. However, I feel like it'd be better to have some stereo spread involved, either having two tracks panned, or three, two panned and the main center track. How do you all do it?

 

[topsoul182]

Sometimes I like to use the haas effect on the double and compress HARD

 

[egan.]

If you want a spread do 3.

 

[nezvers]

or record 2 and apply - http://www.vstcafe.com/2010/01/adt-artificial-double-tracking-vst.html
it's awesome, really sound like double track and doesn't collapse on mono summing. Only you should decrease dry and wet signal somewhere 5db.

 

[Aaron Smith]

I vary between 1-4 tracks playing at all times normally, but from time to time I'll need more if there are overlapping parts or if something specific should creatively call for more layers. I generally set up my tracks like this (and more if necessary, following the same organizational scheme):

Vox C1
Vox C2
Vox L1
Vox R1

I also normally have the vocalist do one pass straight through the song first (especially if I don't already know the song), that way I have some reference as to how it's laid out and how to approach it better, what to ask the vocalist to do, etc. Work back through the song from the beginning, redo most (if not all) of the initial pass by section/phrase, add layers, throw in my ideas (accent powerful/important lyrical passages, etc)...and basically by the end of tracking, I have all the layering and panning all set based on which tracks I recorded to. It just seems wrong to me to not have the overall production approach all decided on by the time tracking is done, I think it's gotta be all worked out while the vocalist is there (if not before) so you can make sure the song turns out as good as possible. Also then this way I don't have to do much (if any) panning automation, everything is just already placed where it belongs, and it's mostly just volume and FX send automation to deal with. I'm pretty much thinking about screams/growls as I write all this, but the same rules apply to singing!

ESPECIALLY with screaming/growling, I think it's really important to vary between a single track at times (C1), and various layers (C1+C2, or C1+L1+R1, or some pseudo-stereo L1+R1 or C1+L1+R1, etc), in order to really add movement and vibe to the songs. No matter how good the vocalist is, I think it gets really boring hearing a whole song worth of growls just plopped into the center of the spectrum without any variation and contrast across the stereo image and in the way the vocals are presented to the listener. I'm really big on having vocalists add several identical layers too...the idea isn't to always have the layers always sound like different kinds of voices, but to have the sum of all the parts amount to what sounds like a single larger-than-life voice.

Anyway, every song is unique, but that's my general approach.

 

[amarshism]

I always set up a tracking track in pt that is record armed for capturing takes. Below it they are MAINA DBLA MAINB DBLB LA RA LB RB

Then above the tracking track I have 8 tracks labelled va,vb etc for putting my throwaway tracks. As I get the takes I drag them down onto their tracks. The reason for the MAINB/DBLB is for handoffs where lines overlap. I always double track everything and put them on their main and dbl tracks and then the pairs go off to the panned tracks when I want a spread on a line. I keep the throwaways up on the other tracks in case I ever need something later or for driving extra fx etc.

 

[JeffTD]

I do it 100% the same way Aaron does. The only thing I do slightly different is get the vocalist to do a one-take through the song while we're doing prepro (scratch gtrs, click track sorting, re-writing parts of songs if it needs it, etc) and then go through on my own time and make notes about what I hear in my head for layering, panning, fx, etc. Usually the vocalist himself has no idea of what to do for layering/panning/fx so if I can go in with ideas already worked out it helps the session run really smoothly.

I always track more layers than I end up using, too. I'd rather have the ability to take for instance a secondary growl underneath a higher scream and pan it hard left/right than be stuck with it dead center and have to psuedo-stereo it out.

 

[Aaron Smith]

I always track more layers than I end up using, too. I'd rather have the ability to take for instance a secondary growl underneath a higher scream and pan it hard left/right than be stuck with it dead center and have to psuedo-stereo it out.

Totally! I sometimes don't end up using every layer in a final mix that I first thought was most appropriate for a part, but it's always better to have too much than too little.

 

[schwinginbatman]

or record 2 and apply - http://www.vstcafe.com/2010/01/adt-artificial-double-tracking-vst.html
it's awesome, really sound like double track and doesn't collapse on mono summing. Only you should decrease dry and wet signal somewhere 5db.

An interesting plug in, it seems to work pretty well. I don't know whether or not I'll end up actually using it on the demo or just going the organic route (which will be a lot since some songs require a lot of vocal overdubs, like nearly Blind Guardian levels), but I'll give it a spin.

I'm liking all the suggestions so far. Quite clearly I don't give vocals enough attention. What I'm thinking of now is setting it up like this:

VERSE
VERSE DBL 1 (pan some way L)
VERSE DBL 2 (pan some way R)
VERSE DBL 3, 4, if necessary
CHORUS
CHORUS DBL 1, 2, 3, 4 (it's power metal, I know the choruses are gonna need a ton of doubles)
Any other stuff needed

How far do you all typically pan? I would think somewhere between 30%-70% would be where I'm looking.

 

[Aaron Smith]

In my setup the panned ones are always at 100%.

 

[Melb_shredder]

I vary between 1-4 tracks playing at all times normally, but from time to time I'll need more if there are overlapping parts or if something specific should creatively call for more layers. I generally set up my tracks like this (and more if necessary, following the same organizational scheme):

Vox C1
Vox C2
Vox L1
Vox R1

I also normally have the vocalist do one pass straight through the song first (especially if I don't already know the song), that way I have some reference as to how it's laid out and how to approach it better, what to ask the vocalist to do, etc. Work back through the song from the beginning, redo most (if not all) of the initial pass by section/phrase, add layers, throw in my ideas (accent powerful/important lyrical passages, etc)...and basically by the end of tracking, I have all the layering and panning all set based on which tracks I recorded to. It just seems wrong to me to not have the overall production approach all decided on by the time tracking is done, I think it's gotta be all worked out while the vocalist is there (if not before) so you can make sure the song turns out as good as possible. Also then this way I don't have to do much (if any) panning automation, everything is just already placed where it belongs, and it's mostly just volume and FX send automation to deal with. I'm pretty much thinking about screams/growls as I write all this, but the same rules apply to singing!

ESPECIALLY with screaming/growling, I think it's really important to vary between a single track at times (C1), and various layers (C1+C2, or C1+L1+R1, or some pseudo-stereo L1+R1 or C1+L1+R1, etc), in order to really add movement and vibe to the songs. No matter how good the vocalist is, I think it gets really boring hearing a whole song worth of growls just plopped into the center of the spectrum without any variation and contrast across the stereo image and in the way the vocals are presented to the listener. I'm really big on having vocalists add several identical layers too...the idea isn't to always have the layers always sound like different kinds of voices, but to have the sum of all the parts amount to what sounds like a single larger-than-life voice.

Anyway, every song is unique, but that's my general approach.

I literally cannot ++++ this enough times. That's pretty much exactly how I do it and how I see it!

 

[dan weapon]

I literally cannot ++++ this enough times. That's pretty much exactly how I do it and how I see it!

Me too. Read through Aaron's post thinking "yep, yep, yep".

Excellent advice.

 

[AntonioPetrole]

In my setup the panned ones are always at 100%.

Really? I have always heard to keep your vocals no further than 20% out. And I wonder why my vocals are shit in a mix. I hate getting caught up on "rules" when I mix. Back to the drawing board for me

 

[ArnaudM]

Aaron has got the job !

Thanks : almost what I do, but even more interesting because you do not waste any time building pan automation curves. What you say about the expressive dynamics of the growls-grunts-screams is absolutely right. Production is crucial here : it is what makes the vocals interesting in extreme metal.

 

[thefalloftheheretic]

I normally track anywhere from 5-6 full runs through per vocal track, which is mainly two.
Then, in places like the chorus, I'll quad track in certain places.
Furthermore, in places like breaks, I'll track anywhere from 8 to 25 times. Yes. And it sounds fucking awesome.

 

[Clark Kent]

or record 2 and apply - http://www.vstcafe.com/2010/01/adt-artificial-double-tracking-vst.html
it's awesome, really sound like double track and doesn't collapse on mono summing. Only you should decrease dry and wet signal somewhere 5db.

Nothing says quality like the word artificial! Haha.. just kidding man. I use a slight doubling effect that adds a cool phasy quality to the vocals and make the S and H letters sound more hifi. The Waves doubler sounds pretty good when you start it up. I just make it more suddle. It can really make a crappy recording sound a lot better sometimes.

That being said I'm a vocalist and I go crazy with the amount of tracks just because I think it's the most important thing in music. The message and main melody etc. comes from that so I don't think you should hurry the vocals. Record as much as you need to make it sound as good as it can be but ofcourse sometimes less is more.

I usually have three main vocal tracks on the center with different compression and EQ and one lofi distorted track. Then four tracks of harmonies because I usually double every harmony so I pan them to the side like guitars... one 100% LR and the other somewhere inbetween where it fits the session.. Usually around 50% LR. So I usually have two harmonies doubled or sometimes I might have all of the 4 harmonies singing something different. Not cool to do when playing live though.

So I might easily have up to 10 vocal tracks. I think I should really get me that Vocalign thing to get these tracks to sit better. Haha.. I actually happen to have a very gay recording from a week back to show you guys. But anyways that's not in the mix where most of the harmonies will be buried under the guitar tracks.

 

[Melb_shredder]

Just looking at pre pro for the album in starting, 7 tracks of growl vocals
Center, center double. High rasp overlay L and R. Main backing L R, low growl Center.

So horses for courses. But as a minimum, safe bet, go with Aaron's techniques