I think the writings of Daniel Quinn would appeal to a lot of you...

Neapolitan

New Metal Member
Aug 5, 2005
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Tallahassee, FL
Daniel Quinn is the author of such titles as Ishmael, The Story of B, and My Ishmael. I mention this because I have recently finished reading some of his books and, like Warrel, Quinn exposes the inherent flaws of our culture and society.

I see that there must be considerable overlap in their perspectives , but Warrel's lyrics are more about the ill effects and outcomes of the structure of our society such as crime, famine, or the high proportion of clinically depressed individuals. Quinn's work is more about the deep rooted causes of these cultural signs of distress. For instance, Warrel's lyrics often criticize the media and politics, which are specific but only isolated aspects of society, only a part of the puzzle if you will. Quinn, however, starts at the source and that is that our entire modern culture starts with the premise that "the world belongs to man", and its corrolary "it is man's duty to conquer, rule, subdue the world.

Man did not always live with this ethos though. When did this premise come about then? For 99.9% of human history it did not...

The term "prehistory" is at least sophomoric if not plain ignorant. Why would we ignore the 3 million years of evolutionary selection that gave rise to modern humans? Even more disconcerting is why would we ignore the past 200,000 years, a time period in which we know that modern humans, homo sapiens, existed. Would we not gain enormous insight into how evolution has sculpted a niche for humans on this earth? Would it not give us unprecedented insight into how man might live a rewarding life without destroying the world which he and every imaginable species depends on?

Our culture marks the beginning of history as opposed to "prehistory" about 10,000 years ago. 10,000 years ago a radical new culture and civilization began to emerge. It was the culture of totalitarian agriculture that began in the fertile crescent between the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers or modern day Iraq.

Totalitarian agriculture led to enormous surplusses of food, and as the laws of ecology predict, the human population grew as a result. As population expanded, more food was needed. Therefore, more land was needed. Not only was more land needed, but to increase food production still, man began to eliminate his competitors. And when man began this he broke the law of the community of life, the law of limited competition:

Any species may compete to the best of their abilities, but:
May not eradicate competitive species
May not destroy their food sources
May not prevent them access to food sources

The law of limited competition is the essential ingredient of evolutionary stability and balance. When any species breaks this law, it jeopardizes itself and the diversity of life on earth. No other species besides man breaks this law, because, eventually it would mean extinction for that species. Man is no exception. From a biological viewpoint, man is no different than a muskrat. He is not exempt from the laws of physics or chemistry, evolution or ecology.

For the past 10,000 years our culture has increased food production and as a result population has increased - exponentially. It took our species about 90,000 years each time to double in population until about 10,000 years ago when the rate began to grow. In 1900, the world population was about 1 billion. By the 50s, about 3 billion. The 90s, 6 billion. In another 40 years, 12 billion. This spells disaster for man and for all life on earth.

I would write more, but I do not feel qualified yet to explain the incredible wisdom contained in Quinn's writings. I can only admonish you to investigate these ideas for yourself. I promise you that if you explore these ideas for yourself, you will emerge with a new worldview - a new view of culture, of society and its institutions, of religion, and of man's place on earth.

The Story of B - Amazon.com

Ishmael - Amazon.com

The Ishmael Community - exploration of issues central to the novel Ishmael and the ideas of Daniel Quinn. Summary of Ishmael
 
The books really could have come across less pretentiously, but I suppose thats how it is. Things aren't considered so groundbreaking and monumental unless they're written in that undetectably condescending manner.

But no complaints, I guess these things need to be brought up to those who wouldn't understand otherwise, and that's why I sit on the line of wanting to recommend, or telling to stay away, and really get into something a more meaningful... but then comes the problem of short attention spans, and back to why a book like this can say so little and yet be so motivational, and highly recommended.

Toss it into the same group of books as "Who Moved My Cheese" ......... but it is always good to start somewhere.

I don't even know what happened to the several copies of Ishmael I used to have, I likely handed them out at any opportunity to those who really needed them, with the hopes they would pass them on, too.... but that is the plan afterall.

Unfortunately the only ones I see moved so insanely much by Ishmael/Story of B, are the ones who already understand the concept, and maybe its just more of finally having someone else's words do the promoting of their common goal, or finally being able to put their thoughts into words.... but back to the point again, it's not that there's anything wrong with that, at all.
 
Chromatose said:
Unfortunately the only ones I see moved so insanely much by Ishmael/Story of B, are the ones who already understand the concept, and maybe its just more of finally having someone else's words do the promoting of their common goal, or finally being able to put their thoughts into words.... but back to the point again, it's not that there's anything wrong with that, at all.

That may be true. I started out reading the books already believing in a lot of Quinn's premises, but I don't think I had ever heard the concept articulated like that before. If you reject basic laws of science it might be a tough pill to swallow, but if you believe in science, evolution and ecology most importantly, I think you will learn a lot. It's good to see others are familiar with his work.
 
right on, and great thread btw

but unfortunately, as well as you'd think incredibly well thought out threads such as yours would go over around here, it turns out they are more like the equivalent of the Spruce Goose.
 
I should start an ecofascist organization to promote ideas that if we don't change our ways the Kali-Yuga will destroy the earth and us with it.

But alas, I would only have two or three disciples out of the other six billion idiots on the planet.