Norsemaiden said:
Dushan S : Okay I agree with you about the logic regarding a family killed by a murderer. That is a logical observation. It is the kind attack that happens regularly in places like Sudan, Darfur, Somalia, etc. But it is just not the case that Hitler deliberately killed people as an abuse of power. People died in the war, people starved, people were used in labour camps and died as a result.
Norsemaiden, I will bi direct and say that I am not sure what to think when you write something like this. In one moment you sound like you have spent some time getting to know your stuff, and then you write something like this.
First there were different kind of camps, that were ranging from "labour" camps to death camps or prisoner camps. Prisoner camps made for allied prisoners were vacation facilities compared to prisoner camps for Soviet soldiers. So what made most of "Camps" similar that only shure exit out was to die.
People were not "used" because work in Camps was not essential in any way. It was just temporary before prisoners were killed. Point was extermination, and belive it or not, you can't kill and burry millions of people fast enough, so camps were facilities made to keep "wrong" people out of society, wrong because of their political views, because of their sexuality, because of their nationality or race. So when German military SS unit was destroying all villages in its way in russia killing anything that moves, this is not because they must to do that on military bases, it is because goal WAS extermination.
In war time there are always lot of tales told about the brutal acts of the opposite side - over time this is usually found out to be lies and exaggerations told for the same reasons as the tales of WMDs in Iraq or Iraqi soldiers hurling Kuwaiti babies out of hospital windows. Let's not bother to argue about that, as it is pointless. And anyway it is not as if the opposing side was a paragon of virtue.
You know, there is one problem with people living in a western society. You are safe, you have enough to eat, you are too comfortable. So from your nice chair you are online and you have that freedom to express your views without anyone aresting punishing or killing you.
I have very small family, especially from mothers side. This is because most of my family ended in death camps during WWII. It is because as a Slav, I was considered underling, right? Also, my stepfathers father was in prisoner camp in germany during WWII. He was one of the rare people that got back so he was able to talk about it. Prisoner camps were nice place, nicer than death camps. You have had some chance to survive, because standard procedure was not to kill you at the end, so if you manage to live somehow with one small piece of bread on daily basis, while for instance, your weight is 55 kg you are carrying sacks that are heavy as you are. If you fall, ss officer shoots you in the place. So this is Prisoner camp, holiday camp compared to concentration camps.
So I understand that someone can sit in their comfortable room and read some stupid books and make up his own theories about holocaust being just a global conspiration agains poor Germans that have lost war, but, you know, there were some people that were there, got first hand experience and told us about it. I am not angry about history, have nothing against Germans, etc etc, just stating some facts.
So based on my family history, I can say that you are very wrong about your concepts and theories about mr. Adolf. I gave you "killing your family" story from the same reason. When something is far from you, when you are not endangered, when everything is just a intellectual concept inside your mind, it is easy to write some shithead's book about holocaust being made up and got strange ideas based on this.
What I wonder is. What was a German man supposed to do in post WWI Germany with his nation so shattered and starvation and poverty rife. What should a man do who really cared about this and wanted to restore Germany to its former glory and help his people? All the evidence is that Hitler had all these concerns and he struggled for many years against deadly adversity to try and rescue Germany (in the way that he thought best - rightly or wrongly).
Germany was not in immidiate chaos. Problem is that Country was humiliated after the WWI was over, and that it inded in financial problems because of debts that should have been paid as compensation for damage in war (Can't remember right english words for this, but you know what I mean). Germany have had very strong and democratic political life, it is just that terrible financial situation has made a way for a dictator to take position of power.
At that time, world has had a little understanding of global relationships, so unlike today other countries and their politics could not understand that you need strong country that is your partner as a neighbour...A that time idea was to keep germany poor and in bad condition so it never treatens again to financial and political interests of victorius allies. That is what made way to chaos in germany, and to rise of Nazis.
It is fact that Hitler wanted strong Germany, but his Germany was idea in his head, concept, dream, he was not interested about real Germany. If you love your people, would you cause to them what he has caused to Germans during WWII? His dream and his vision of world empire and him on the throne was more important to him than real country and lives of real people. He had no problem sending german children to die as soldiers when he run out of "human resources". He was monster, and I think that every normal and intelligent german has every reason to think that he is monster and that was darkest page in German History. Every other German was killed in war, and country was devastated. That was a result of his "Work" for his own people.
It is just shallow stupid greedy motivation - and it doesn't square with Hitler's personality or actions at all. You may as well say that Jesus was a man who just wanted to tell a load of lies so that people would call him son of God, or that Gandhi did everything just so he could have sex with some underaged girls (something which he did, but not the reason for his resistance) or that all parents are motivated by wanting someone small to order around. Or what about that Mandela led the ANC just so he could get to be president of South Africa and thumb his nose at the Boers?
Norsemaiden you are seriously comparing Gandhi, Jesus and Hitler??? Mendela has preaching freedom and liberation, Gandhi and Jesus just the same. There was no hatred and idea of world domination in their words, or maybe I have missed some kind of Mendela death camps?
and I had to learn a lot about Hitler and NS and I am always interested to know even more about this darkest chapter in the history of my country and in the whole world actually; so that I would be able to really unterstand why did this come so far back in 1930´s and 1940´s...
