Kick drum tuning. Never happy. Help?!

bryan_kilco

bryan_kilco

Member
Nov 22, 2007
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Poconos, PA
So my band is recording ourselves again. We took like 4-5 hours of tuning drums. Came back yesterday, set mics, find the kick to sound too boomy. Not enough attack. Kind of "gong"-ish. We fucked with mic placement (Shure Beta 52) and tuning for a few hours. Got it a little better, but I'm still extremely unhappy with it.

I'm fairly certain it is all boiling down to the batter head he has on. (Forget the exact one it is right now....Remo something, clear)

He uses an Axis longboard pedal and the beaters are that weird plastic/rubber stuff and I think Remo falam pad (black one). He also has this little thing called a "Kick-Port" installed on the resonant heads port hole. And....he got it on there but was having trouble trying to get it back out and didn't want to destroy the head in the process, so we left it on.

A few buddies of mine who have GOD-like kick sounds always tell me to tune the resonant head really loose, like finger tight, and then the batter head a bit tighter. We've tried this over and over and still get a weird boomy, crappy, un-lively sounding kick.

Anyone have any sort of advice?

I'm going to dig up Glenn's acoustic drums thread again.

I'm also going to try to pick up one of those Evans heads with the damper ring built in and the Remo kevlar slam pad (my buddy has this setup and his kick sounds brutal).

But, at the end of the day, if I can't get a great sounding kick, I can just sample replace. Which I'm trying to steer away from that whole "fuck it, we can just replace it later" mindset.
 
amarshism said:
Maybe he has a shit drum kit?
Click to expand...

It's quite possible. I still think there's a way to get a better sound. I had the same problem with his old drumkit as well. This is a Tama Rockstar. Yeah, I have heard they aren't really all that great, but I assume we could still at least get a kick sound that is somewhat usable. :( Everything else sounds fine.
 
bryan_kilco said:
A few buddies of mine who have GOD-like kick sounds always tell me to tune the resonant head really loose, like finger tight, and then the batter head a bit tighter. We've tried this over and over and still get a weird boomy, crappy, un-lively sounding kick.


I'm also going to try to pick up one of those Evans heads with the damper ring built in and the Remo kevlar slam pad (my buddy has this setup and his kick sounds brutal).
Click to expand...


Two things seem weird to me:

First, head choices. I've Remo Powerstroke 3, Evans PQ4. Others have worked, but none have worked so consistently for me as those two (Remo is the preferred, the Evans one is supposed to be an exact copy) as batter heads. For resonant, I honestly just leave whatever the thing came with on there. If it's super old, a black Ambassador reso head will be great.

Second, the tuning method described is ass backwards from what's worked for me and most of my drummer friends. PS3 on the batter finger-tightened enough to keep the head from crinkling and the drummer from whining (AKA quite loose). Reso head to taste after that; start low and go up until you get the thing sounding punchy instead of thuddy.
 
Bryan, my drum tech and I have always done the opposite. Batter head very loose, just past finger-tight, and resonant head tuned higher to taste for tone and pedal feel - it's never tough to dial in a good kick sound this way.

We prefer Remo Powerstroke 3 batter heads as well. Also, grab a Falam Slam patch and some hard beaters and you're good to go.
 
Hmm I will work with some of this advice. I don't have any real hands-on, one-on-one time with drum tuning except from watching our drummer tune and me suggesting stuff. :lol:

Thanks Jeff, we'll try that method before we go buying heads and stuff.

And the Powerstroke 3 actually looks like the one he has on there now.....
 
bryan_kilco said:
I imagine that after better tuning, it wouldn't sound as terrible?! =/
Click to expand...

If the drum is tuned better, it'll sound better. If the drum isn't tuned well, it's barely worth the time messing with the mic positioning. Put the time into tuning the thing and the mic/mic position becomes much more forgiving.

As far as the process of tuning the batter head, just completely loosen all of the lugs, and then tighten them with your fingers until they don't freely turn - this is "finger tight." Double check and make sure the lugs are evenly tightened. Do the same for the resonant head, but once the lugs are finger-tight, continue to tighten the lugs evenly from there. Give each lug 1/4 turn (work back and forth across the head) and check the sound. Keep slowly tightening the lugs until you find the sweet spot.

You can also put a small pillow/sandbag/towel inside the drum and rest it against the batter and/or resonant head to tighten up the sound to taste.
 
BLUElightCory said:
If the drum is tuned better, it'll sound better. If the drum isn't tuned well, it's barely worth the time messing with the mic positioning. Put the time into tuning the thing and the mic/mic position becomes much more forgiving.

As far as the process of tuning the batter head, just completely loosen all of the lugs, and then tighten them with your fingers until they don't freely turn - this is "finger tight." Double check and make sure the lugs are evenly tightened. Do the same for the resonant head, but once the lugs are finger-tight, continue to tighten the lugs evenly from there. Give each lug 1/4 turn (work back and forth across the head) and check the sound. Keep slowly tightening the lugs until you find the sweet spot.

You can also put a small pillow/sandbag/towel inside the drum and rest it against the batter and/or resonant head to tighten up the sound to taste.
Click to expand...

Thanks dude. Yep, we have some padding inside resting against the batter head already. I feel like such a dumbass for trying to tune this thing backwards. Could have sworn that was the "way" a few of us were told. But I trust you guys here and we'll see what we can do. Going to try to get back over there tonight.
 
JeffTD said:
Two things seem weird to me:

First, head choices. I've Remo Powerstroke 3, Evans PQ4. Others have worked, but none have worked so consistently for me as those two (Remo is the preferred, the Evans one is supposed to be an exact copy) as batter heads. For resonant, I honestly just leave whatever the thing came with on there. If it's super old, a black Ambassador reso head will be great.

Second, the tuning method described is ass backwards from what's worked for me and most of my drummer friends. PS3 on the batter finger-tightened enough to keep the head from crinkling and the drummer from whining (AKA quite loose). Reso head to taste after that; start low and go up until you get the thing sounding punchy instead of thuddy.
Click to expand...


This for sure. Powerstroke, finger tight then 1/4-1/2 a turn to smooth out the wrinkles. Also try wooden or hard plastic beaters if you want more attack. A small pillow inside the drum, leaning on the resonant head will help kill some of the "gong" without deadening the whole drum. The pillow can be leaned against the reso head from the outside of the drum as well.

People hate on the 52, but put it 1/2 way in the hole, aimed at the beater. When you mix, cut the mids, boost the fundamental and boost some attack at like 8-10k and blammo, sweet beefy kick sound. For me at least. Also make sure to tell him to dig in when he's kickin the thing
 
If you guys are on a budget which I am guessing you are.....

#1 Tune it the way Jeff said. Loose on the batter side, and a bit tighter ont he reso head till its punchy. Once it sounds good in the room grab your Beta 52 and a 57 or an i5 something with decent high end response. Use both mics (make sure they are in phase,or phasey in a good way. Use the 52 for all your thump, and use the 57 for definition. Other option is to say fuck it and go buy a Audix D6 and be happy ...LOL Recently I have been using the D6 / 112 Combination and its just stellar!

Oh and for heads Remo PS3 or Evans Emad all the way!
 
Tama Rockstar Kits from the 80's are pretty good.
+1 for the powerstroke 3, as loose as possible.
Also put some kind of absorber/pillow on the bottom of the shell to avoid ugly internal reflexions (barrel/basketball type of sound).
 
I used to love the beta 52 on the outside, just outside the hole and another mic inside for the attack. Been ages since I used it though as mine got stolen a few years ago.

A lot of good points raised already about tuning but one that is super important is the way your drummer is hitting the kick drum and how his pedals/beater are set up to make contact with the skin. Make sure he's hitting it with good force and in clean hits and see what material he's using on his beater. Try with the Falam pad and without too if you can, see which you prefer. If for some reason he's not getting a good clean hit maybe experiment with the set up of the drum pedal so he gets a cleaner hit. Might be harder for him to play with but if it makes the kick sound really good it's worth it.
 
Thanks a lot guys, we dropped both heads off last night and retuned them. Batter - just about finger tight and got crinkles out, reso - maybe a tad above the batter. I think his drum dial read 70 on batter and 75 on reso. It definitely improved attack and weight of the drum. Unfortunately, under the mic it still had the same sort of characteristic as previously. Definitely sounded better under the mic, but not exactly groundbreaking. It very well may be the damn Kick Port that he couldn't get back out.

At the exact moment when we're taking off the batter head, he says to me "Oh yeah, that's right - this is the stock head." He had bought a new reso head and not a batter one when he bought the kit. :superfuckingfacepalm: (It was a floor model kit, I think he paid $300 for it and brand new it would have been like $1,200 or something).

So, there's most likely at least 50% of our problem.

He's definitely a decently hard hitter. Oddly enough, he plays a lot harder during faster double kick runs rather than a slower run. And the beaters are the stock Axis ones. It seems like a plastic/rubber composite or something. Sort of soft, but not really. And he has an Evans Falam pad on there but I'm not sure which exact one it is (it's black).

We also dropped both snare heads and retuned/tightened the wires and it has also improved with the batter head being looser than the reso head. More weight and body but still with a decent amount of crack.

Going back in today for more experimenting, tom tuning, and slight adjustments before (hopefully) committing and beginning tracking.
 
Just make sure you're putting a little dampening in the kick, whether it's a towel or a small pillow. Experiment with both. Also, try using a different Reso head. Thick ones with muffling and those kick ports have never worked for me. The thinner the better. The PS3 Batter head is a single ply head. I always use an ambassador or equivalent on the reso side with a bit of muffling. open s it up a lot. Otherwise everything has already been said.... PS3, kinda loose, bit of muffling, thinner reso head.

Also, I don't know about those Axis pedals. Are you sure he's getting enough weight behind it to get a good hard kick? I don't know but it seems like every time I've heard a non replaced axis pedal it just sounds kinda.... weird?

Maybe try the plastic Iron Cobra beaters instead of their weird ones. Also, have you gotten a tunebot yet for the other drums?
 
Yeah the Axis beaters are a bit strange. I'm going to see if he has his Iron Cobra laying around at home if he can grab the beaters off it but I think one is broken. We haven no tune bot but a Drum Dial and we've been using it on everything and taking notes.

drew_drummer said:
Can you borrow an Audix D6?? Fucking love that microphone. Totally stopped using my 52.
Click to expand...

I wish. Looked them up online and $300. Possible sneak peak into the band fund and a trip to GC?!?!?!
 
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