kick "smack" sound on the latest Exodus release

[Vit]

hope I've not committed anything bad by this - I just coulnd resist the temptation - the sound on the latest Exodus album is amazingly powerful and crisp - so I decided to make it my practical exercise to try to get as close as possible to that sound. Decided to start with the drums and bass.

I cut two short pieces from 2 songs on the album where the kick is alone with bass and another when it is alone with guitar - imported it into my sequencer - got the tempo and looped it with my midi kick - Sonor 22" from DFH Superior.

I spent quite some time tweaking and got close - I guess 65-70% (maybe closer but I am trying to be modest here ) but on all ocasions when I listen to my results I hear that I still haven't nailed that smack.

I realise that I cannot cut or boost something that is "not there" - in the sample - but there has to be a way around it - I just refuse to give up

http://www.2shared.com/file/3048406/c45ea67c/exudus_kickgtr_v5.html
http://www.2shared.com/file/3048437/9874c529/exudus_kickbass_v2_nD.html
(wait a few seconds and you'll see this appear at the bottom of the page "Save file to your PC: click here")

Looking forward to hearing from you guys. All the best.

Vit

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

This may be obvious, but it wasn't to me for an embarrasingly long time. But a lot of what I'd call smack is in the 2khz-4khz area. Lower than where you might think it is. Also, I suppose you could try some dynamic processing, like compression but with a gate to get rid of the sustain. Good luck getting that sound man. Obviously, unbelievable production on that whole CD.

 

[LSD-Studio]

for the "smack" you need the correct head, the right beater, the falam, the mic and the correct mic-position......(plus some other variables)

 

[scorpio01169]

for the "smack" you need the correct head, the right beater, the falam, the mic and the correct mic-position......(plus some other variables)

yeah...but he's using a sample, so mic placement isnt gonna be an option for him. but like said earlier compression and a gate may be your only option other than a differnent sample that gets you even closer.

 

[Vit]

Thank you guys! I wish I could post the mp3 here - how do I do that - please help me with this.

Right - I am suing a sample so I'm trying to get close to the reference I am using by means of processing through plug-ins - I tried multiple EQing and compression/gating - even some distortion/overdrive - but I'm yet to explore this path in greater depth. I might give up on the sample itself but only when I feel I've exhausted my imagination

I suspect the falam is there on the reference but is unlikely on the sample I am using - so I though experimenting with distortion might "create" the smacky resonance that is not originally there on the sample. I noticed that the smack starts to appear with adding reverb (with hi mids and highs accentuated and low freq rolled off on the reverb). I'm going to try a very short gated reverb too to keep the punch of the kick and get the smack from reverb - no matter how crazy this may sound

And what's more - I noticed all the toms on the album have "smacky" sounds to them - and I never heard anyone used falams on toms - so it must be the processing that helps get that kind of sound - right ?

Do you think we could get Andy the great master to share some secrets with us here ? Would be JUST GREAT !!!!

 

[ahjteam]

http://www.exodusattack.com/audio/mp3/homeland.mp3

I'll analyze it in a minute

edit: The smack on it comes quite accurately at 5khz. Drop 7dB there and its almost gone, put a lowpass at 2khz and its totally gone

 

[broken81]

If you put a lowpass at 2k it would cut out 5k though right?

If the smack is at 5k then that would defeat the purpose i would think...:Smug:


*edit

Oh never mind you mean if you lowpass down to 2k there is no smack on Exodus kick sound right?

 

[Vit]

I figured how to upload. Will do that in about 4 hours when I get home from work. I cannot access the upload site from here

 

[Vit]

I uploaded my samples - I placed the links to the download page in my starting post of this topic. Please take a listen. Two more things about the kick in the files - the pitch of the raw sample I used seems to be higher than that on the reference. And I used too much reverb on the file with the bass.

I'd greatly appreciate your advice on how to get closer to the reference's smack .

All the best to everyone !!!

 

[Vit]

http://www.exodusattack.com/audio/mp3/homeland.mp3

I'll analyze it in a minute

edit: The smack on it comes quite accurately at 5khz. Drop 7dB there and its almost gone, put a lowpass at 2khz and its totally gone

Well .... that's Raze from Shovelheaded Kill Machine - and that's not the latest album Exodus released . And while I love that album - still the production on Shovel-Headed (in my opinion) is not as good as that on the latest (The Atrocity Exhibition: Exhibit A) - including the drums. The kick on the Shovel-Headed is not so deliciously smacky as it is on the Atrocity Exhibition

 

[ahjteam]

Oh never mind you mean if you lowpass down to 2k there is no smack on Exodus kick sound right?

Exactly

Well .... that's Raze from Shovelheaded Kill Machine - and that's not the latest album Exodus released

Oh... It was on the Exodus-websites mainpage so I of course assumed that it is from the latest album. But anyways, I noticed that there was a lot of harmonics to that 5khz smack, because I couldn't get the smack completely off without lowpassing. I went oldschool and recorded ~30 seconds from that myspace sample to cubase to get a nice little loop for analyzing. The snap and smack is near 6khz this time and again dissappears when the lowpass is at 2khz, so basically the same thing as earlier, but pitchshifted up a bit

 

[Vit]

Thank you for the analysis. I am just thinking of how I could make use of it. When I was experimenting I figured I cannot get that smack just by boosting or cutting - I am using a sample from DFH Superior (the 22" Sonor) - and I tried pretty much all frequencies :zombie: I also notice a similar kind of "champ-like" smack on all toms - and while I believe most of the smack on kick comes from falam/beater combination - none of that is used on toms - so the trick is most likely hiding somewhere in the processing chain. If that is true - then it makes sense to search and try to enduce it from the sample I am using (based on my study DFH Superior has some high quality samples in it). I also heard that some drummers get their smack from loosening their kick head - so maybe if I pitchshift the sample a couple of tones (or semitones) down and tweak from there the same way I did on the sound clips in my initial post here - I'd get closer to the reference ?

Does it make sense to you guys - or you think this logic of mine has flaws? Looking forward to your precious advice !!!

By the way - Bulb who most people here know well - is using Superior for his demos - and I can hear a pretty cool kick smack on them - check out this link
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=147108&content=music&songcount=102&offset=0&currentPage=1

 

[Machinated]

I got very close to the Tempo of the Damned kick drum sound with the premier kick sample from DFHS. Like stupidly close - give that one a try!

 

[Vit]

Wow - that's encouraging. Thanks a lot. I tried switching all the other kicks in DFHS under the EQ/Compression settings I dialed in for the 22" Sonor and I didn't like the result - but since these were different kicks I should've changed the settings Will give that one a try this evening. Thanks again.

 

[ahjteam]

When I was experimenting I figured I cannot get that smack just by boosting or cutting - I am using a sample from DFH Superior (the 22" Sonor) - and I tried pretty much all frequencies :zombie: I also notice a similar kind of "champ-like" smack on all toms - and while I believe most of the smack on kick comes from falam/beater combination

I know that too, because I couldn't remove it with just boosts or cuts either, so it must be the harmonics that make the smack come together... and we all know what is the easiest way to make harmonics, don't we? READ: duplicate, highpass at 1khz, add hard clipping distortion pedal plugin of your choise.

I have found out that in live-situations the tom-smack comes easily with a little overdriven (on analog console, digital distortion is hell!) Beyerdynamic Opus 88/87 mics boosted at 4-6khz depending on the tune of the drums. Also consider getting the Behringer T1952 compressor, it costs only ~$150 and saturates, distorts and pumps the source like HELL and thats why it sounds FVCKING GOOD on drums and percussions!

 

[Vit]

I know that too, because I couldn't remove it with just boosts or cuts either, so it must be the harmonics that make the smack come together... and we all know what is the easiest way to make harmonics, don't we? READ: duplicate, highpass at 1khz, add hard clipping distortion pedal plugin of your choise.

Hey pal ! Thanks a lot HARMONICS I took that from your earlier post too and I suspected the harmonics were responsible for my lack of sleep

Please allow me a follow-up question - do you suggest hi-passing and distorting it like that right on the kick track - or sending it to an FX - hi-pass and distort it there and then mix in to taste with the original (EQ-ed and compressed regularly on its own) ? I ask because it seems to me I might loose the low-end on the kick if I just hi pass it at 1kHz and distort +EQ + Compress only on kick's inserts. Did I get your advice correctly?

Thank you very much again - I think I'd be on the right track from now on

PS - I checked Bulb's posts here on the forum - he is saying he's only using Voxengo's CurveEQ with Nuendo's internal EQ on kick and snare - adds compression from Waves VComp and C4 (I guess on the drum set as a whole) and that's pretty much it. And I do like the kick smack he gets on his records. You had a chance to hear his stuff ? Amazing performance in all respects I must say.

I tried Voxengo CurveEQ on guuitar I recorded with my Boss GT-8 and it did add a tube-like "aftertaste" to the track I used it on. I guess this plug-in does add some harmonics along with its EQ function

 

[ahjteam]

I ask because it seems to me I might loose the low-end on the kick if I just hi pass it at 1kHz and distort +EQ + Compress only on kick's inserts. Did I get your advice correctly?

Did you get the "duplicate" part?

 

[Vit]

Damn ! I missed this "," . I thought you'd meant putting duplicate hi-pass - like 2 hi-pass filters - sometimes used to reinforce cut-off frequency threshold.

Thanks man. Sorry, my fault - should've paid better attention to punctuation.
The best of luck to you !!!