Label "problems"

[GeertSamuel]

Ok here's the deal.

When we wanted to re-release our EP "Babylon Ablaze" (november '07) a guy that we did some business with in the past send me an email and said, I want to distribute your EP. So, yeah we had no problems with that (ps we didn't close any contracts (stupid stupid stupid afterwards)). He printed 500 copies of the EP everything got registered at Buma Stemra (Dutch copyright organisation) and we are still the copyright holders of all the songs.

But here's what happens. Now an American label mails, gives us a deal for 1000 copies, and asks exclusive rights for ONLY Nort-America, and some good promotion stuff on it. Since we actually feel that that EP is in our past, it would be nice to just maybe take the deal, with the thought that 1500 copies of the that CD in the world would always be better then 500 copies. Anyway, now here's the problem. The label that distributes the 500 copies of the CD is now giving us shit and threatening us with putting our name negative towards the bigger labels. He distributes all over the world he says, and says that IF we take away North-America, his whole sale would collapse. While he has got Europe & Asia left. Anyway difficult case, anybody had any experience with this?

Difficult case..anyway I made up a contract now for the 500 copies guy, giving him exclusive rights for Europe & Asia, where, I think he could easily do the distribution. Except he's not satisfied till he sees money for an North-America release.

 

[AStacy2]

No contract = no contract. That's illegal for him to do, wouldn't that be called slander and blackmail? I wouldn't sign a contract with someone like that EVER.

 

[Notuern]

Well, dont do what i say might point to, but if the guy wants to put out 500 records, and if all of he's sales collapses because of this, he probably dont know to much(Sence the sales of the other record companies records in north america would make the his records sell in europe.).
And sence the other record company wants to put out 1000 albums with promotion stuff on it, it seems like they are willing to put more effort into your band.

That 500 guy probably is one of those bullshiters who just want to scare you to earn more money and to keep he's sale-rights.

Of course im not telling you to go with the other deal, but start researching both companies and then choose(Because you might get badmouthed for not choosing the 1000 contract too.).

Edit:

Another easier way is to call the 1000 record company and tell them about the situation and ask them to call the 500 record company to try to set up a deal.

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

No contract = no contract. That's illegal for him to do, wouldn't that be called slander and blackmail? I wouldn't sign a contract with someone like that EVER.

No written contract - a lot of countries count verbal contracts as legally binding though.

And threatening a law suit isn't slander or blackmail - slander would be bad-mouthing the band (very hard to prove in court, as the defence is simply that he was offering business advice based on his dealings with you), and blackmail would mean you weren't getting anything in return (he would just say that you were reneging on your contract).

If he helped you file the copyright, he might even be able to argue that he can put out the CD regardless of what you want.

But realistically, none of that will probably happen. Personally, I'd say your best bet is this:

• Tell the US label what's happening,
• Ask the 500 CD guy what portion of that was going to the North American market,
• Get the US label in touch with the other guy about buying those CDs (at cost ideally).

That will give the 500 CD guy the money for those CDs, he can still call it sales to the North American market and it should help get him off your back without you shelling out any money. Some the the artwork will need reprinting (so the barcodes and ID number are right for the US label), but that will still be cheaper for the US label than producing those CDs from scratch (and mean they have less of the 1000 run to make).

That's all assuming that both sides are reasonable people AND have any business sense - which sadly means it probably won't work

Steve

 

[fatalforce]

What does the contract say exactly?
For contract to be vaild there has to be an offer, an acceptance, and some sort of compensation. I'm sure you have a contract regardless.
I'm not really caught up with copyright law in the Netherlands but here in the US filing a copyright does not equal ownership. Once you fixate the art, it's copyrighted.

 

[AStacy2]

Suicide: I think you missed the line about the 500 CD guy talking negative about the band to bigger labels. Slander is something that is spoken/written that negatively affects your repuatation. Now I'm not an attorney but it sounds about right to me. Plus, the 500 CD guy already threatened to do it, maybe they have that in an e-mail or something? If someone treated me like that I'd always be looking for a way to get them back.

 

[GeertSamuel]

Thanks for all the answers..

Suicide_as_Alibi - Yes a verbal contract is also a contract! Only there were also NO verbal agreements on exclusivity!

At the moment he allready send me an email saying that he contact small & bigger labels in the area with this case, meaning that he told his side of the story, meaning we've allready been badmouthed in the firstplace now. His story does not include that there is no written & verbal contract about exclusivity, that we actually haven't signed the deal YET, because we wanted to deal with this the proper way towards him. Only for me it feels like we've allready been badmouthed now to the labels he contacted.

Such a shit situation to be in.

 

[Seizure.]

If he has allready badmouthed you (he allready sent the crappy emails about you if i understand right? What the hell is that about in the first place?) then i would just take the deal in america and make sure you ditch this dude asap, he doesn't seem someone you would wanna do business with in the first place.

I'm sorry to hear about you being in such a situation

 

[Executioner213]

If the american label cannot figure out how they can buy your 500 cd's or whatever from the other guy, maybe you'll have to take it in the nuts and buy them out from him and see if you can sell them through the American distributor...at least if they do that, you can regain your costs. Or, you will have a nice stack of discs to sell on tour. Either way: get out of any deal you already have with the dude. Best you can do is inform others in your area what he did to you and move on...no different than telling "other labels" of his opinion of you guys.

 

[Notuern]

Thanks for all the answers..

Suicide_as_Alibi - Yes a verbal contract is also a contract! Only there were also NO verbal agreements on exclusivity!

At the moment he allready send me an email saying that he contact small & bigger labels in the area with this case, meaning that he told his side of the story, meaning we've allready been badmouthed in the firstplace now. His story does not include that there is no written & verbal contract about exclusivity, that we actually haven't signed the deal YET, because we wanted to deal with this the proper way towards him. Only for me it feels like we've allready been badmouthed now to the labels he contacted.

Such a shit situation to be in.

If I where in that position, and I didnt have any contracts, I would:

* Call him and say "You lost a band", he probably relies on the "small" deals(Seems like it in the way he acts anyways.).
* Call the 1000 CD label and ask if they want to put your album out in Europe too.
* Badmouth the 500 CD guy to everyone you know playing in a band, things like this spread fast.

But thats just me, im not one of those people who deal with life in a "delicate" way.

 

[Seizure.]

Best you can do is inform others in your area what he did to you and move on...no different than telling "other labels" of his opinion of you guys.

True, and i think it the guy is also making himself look like a dick by "telling" the other labels what this band is doing like a little kid to a schoolteacher.

 

[Notuern]

True, and i think it the guy is also making himself look like a dick by "telling" the other labels what this band is doing like a little kid to a schoolteacher.

Actually, almost all labels does this, but in most cases those labels who get the info just dont care, because a record company is not stupid enough to pass a good band just because someone else had trouble sealing a deal with them.

 

[Skinny Viking]

ok I'm gonna weigh in for a moment ...

verbal or written, actual contract or just letter of intent (1st draft of potential contract), the main thing to focus on is "what were the terms?" If the "deal" you worked out with Mr.500 included any specifics about territories, it would have to also list N America as one of said territories. Getting the cds printed up and all is fine, but it sounds like a straight licensing deal you have with him and his "label". That being said, any straight licensing deal will specify not only exactly what territories and mediums he will have exclusive rights to promote and distribute within, but also length of time. I'm sure I'm rehashing a bit here but just for the sake of clarity: If he said "I will distribute and retain rights to promote within N & S America, Europe & Asia as well as internet (for digital sales, mail order, etc...) for a period of 3 years" ... thats all he gets. At the end of 3 years (or whatever) there is the option of him saying he wants to keep marketing it and make a new contract for that specific release, or you are then free to negotiate with other parties how you see fit. For him to threaten you about blacklisting or whatever, thats a bit ridiculous and mostly a scare tactic because he's nervous that he'll be stuck with however many cds are left without his American market. Smells like bullshit unless you had actually agreed that N America would be an included territory in this deal with him. If you did, your only option is to explain to the other label that you're stuck in a deal and only way out is for them to buy out his share of what he projected to move in that area. It wouldn't be all 500 copies if he also had asia and europe listed as sales markets, so maybe the other label might have to work out a deal to buy out like 1/2 (250 copies) or something and then adjust their % of $$$ split with you or whatever works best for them.

Point to the story ... discuss exactly what had been agreed to with Mr.500, if N America was never agreed to, well, fuck him. He should be smarter about such things in the 1st place. If this was a "friendly" partnership then he should not want to stand in the way of you doing better for yourself. He probably just wants to make sure he isn't stuck with a few hundred copies of your disc in his flat. If you did agree in some way to it, talk with the other label and see if they can work out an arrangement with him and free you up. If they are unwilling, you have no choice but to finish out the terms to your original agreement so all you can really do is help promote the hell out of the release and make sure all copies sell.

Hope something in this rant helps. I've been in a very similar situation.

Cheers and good luck!

www.myspace.com/shadowdancemusic

 

[ParsonsMatt]

What label in N. America wanted to do that? That is the exact kind of deal I am looking for. Send me a PM please!

 

[GeertSamuel]

Matt, I will send you PM later tonight.

To the rest, thanks for all your $0.02.
Today we have finalized all negotiations, and I can happily say that with mr. 500 we have dealt correctly. He corrected his errors, admitted things went wrong, and we have come to a good agreement. We actually give him a % of the sales of N-America. Which we are OK with. From now on we have setup a contract with also Mr. 500 so we don't have the problems in the future.
I'm glad it all has come to a good end..