Lolzgreg's Tube Description and Recommendation Thread

[lolzgreg]

Mods, please sticky this if you find it beneficial. I think it will help answer a lot of people's tube questions.



Disclaimer:

I've heard many people say they don't hear the difference between different varieties or makes of tubes; however, I couldn't disagree more. While some amplifiers are less "sensitive" to tube changes, others will display significant changes in tonal character depending on the tubes that are being used.

Please note that the tube manufacturer and labeling associations I am making in the following section only apply to current production tubes, NOT NOS tubes, under the same labels which may have been produced elsewhere.

Also note it is difficult in my opinion to describe sound with words, but I'm doing my best; I have come to the conclusion this is why we use our ears to hear

I should probably mention that the recommendations below are purely subjective. Everyone hears differently, but I tend to think I have a pretty darned good grasp on tube characteristics and high-gain guitar amplifier tone in general, hence why I'm writing this guide



To clear things up about tubes in general, there are only a handful of factories that actually make tubes despite the several "brands" of tubes out there.

The three tube factories that come to mind are: Shuguang Electron of China; Svetlana Petersburg of Russia, Reflector of Russia and JJ Electronic of the Slovak Republic. Note that all Electro-Harmonix tubes are re-branded Sovteks.



Tubes can be visually identified by their plate structure.

Shuguang Electron preamp tubes have two discs toward the top of the plate structure that are smooth in appearance.

Reflector preamp tubes have one disc toward the top of the plate structure that is smooth in appearance.

JJ Electronic preamp tubes have one disc toward the top of the plate structure that has several points, like a "star."



What many companies do is simply re-label tubes with their logo; however, this does not make the tube any different than its many glassy brethren that exist under different names.

The companies that re-brand tubes usually retain power tubes that fall within a range of plate currents (such as Mesa and their color-coded system, allowing you to distinguish between early, standard, or late breakup). These companies often seek out and relabel "premium" preamp tubes that are less microphonic than the majority of available valves.

With that said, if you are purchasing from a dedicated tube store (i.e. Doug's Tubes, Valve Queen, Eurotubes, etc.), you will *only* receive tubes that are well-matched and tested for lower microphonics.





PREAMP TUBES

Shugaung Electron variants including current TAD, non-JJ Ruby,Penta Labs, some Marshall, Mesa Engineering, and ARS
tubes:

-"angry" or "aggressive" top end
-mild sub-harmonic content
-"gritty" midrange

I find that these tubes generally respond well in every tube position of Baron, Bogner, and Framus amplifiers. These tubes also mix well with JJ Electronic tubes in the signal path. I prefer Shugaung Electron in the effects loop and phase inverter tube slots 75% of the time in nearly all amplifiers.


Svetlana Petersburg does not produce preamp tubes.

Reflector variants including Sovtek, Electro-Harmonix, Mullard, and Tung-Sol tubes:

-"bright"
-"clear"
-mildly deficient of lower-midrange

I find that these tubes generally respond well in many tube positions of Engl,Framus, Marshall, Mesa/Boogie, Orange,Peavey, and Soldano amplifiers. These tubes also mix well with Shugaung Electron tubes in many amp's signal paths. Reflector tubes can liven up a cloudy sounding amp. The Sovtek 12AX7LPS is a favorite in many amplifier's phase inverter tube slot. Reflector tubes, especially the Sovtek 12AX7LPS (due to its spiral filament), should be avoided at all costs in the cathode-follower stage of amplifiers that do not have raised heaters; this is because the tubes cannot handle high voltages as well as many other available tubes.


JJ Electronic variants including JJ/Tesla and some Marshall tubes:

-juicy
-round
-mildly deficient of high-midrange

These tubes are my preferred choice. They produce the most pleasant sounding distortion to my ears. I prefer these tubes in all positions of most available amplifiers, including Engl, EVH, Fortin, Marshall, Mesa/Boogie, Orange, Peavey, and Soldano amplifiers. These tubes also mix well with Shugaung Electron tubes in many amp's signal paths. JJ Electronic tubes will subdue the harshness of many amps and are "squishy" in a very desirable way.




POWER AMP TUBES

Shugaung Electron variants including current TAD, non-JJ Ruby,Penta Labs, some Marshall, Mesa Engineering, and ARS
tubes:

-"angry" or "aggressive" top end
-"chunky" bottom end
-"gritty" midrange

I find that these tubes generally respond well in Baron, Bogner, and Framus amplifiers. They are not very hairy sounding, and help add girth to amplifiers that aren't as fat as they could be.


Svetlana Petersburg SED Winged =C= Tubes:
(This may sound confusing, but Svetlana Petersburg NO LONGER PRODUCES Svetlana labeled tubes; however, Reflector does. Be sure not to confuse these )

-"squishy" low end
-"round" top end
-"sluggish" response

I absolutely love these tubes in Marshall and Peavey amplifiers because they make the amplifiers feel less stiff and sound less abrasive to me. However, I don't really like them in anything else.

Reflector variants including Sovtek, Electro-Harmonix, Mullard, and Tung-Sol tubes:

-"balanced" frequency response
-"clear" top end
-"tight" bottom end

The Sovtek 5881WXT+ is by far my favorite 6L6/5881/KT66 tube in any amplifier bar the Peaveys (it does sound great in Peaveys, I just prefer the Winged =C=s). I really do not like any other 6L6 nearly as much. The Shugaung Electron variants are a runner-up in many amplifiers, while the JJ Electronic variants are very average.

The Mullard tubes are in my top three EL34s; they've got balls, but aren't hairy


JJ Electronic JJ/Tesla tubes:

I do not recommend these power tubes in any way shape or form. They definitely have the highest failure rate of any power tube currently available. Most of these tubes sound undesirable in my opinion as well.

However, the JJ EL34 really sounds fantastic in some ampllifiers, but the risk of them cherrying (glowing bright red on the verge of explosion) and taking out your output transformer is not worth the marginal tonal benefits in my opinion



I hope you all enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed writing it Please direct anyone to this thread who has tube-related questions.

I do appreciate criticism and will be willing to amend this guide.

Cheers,

Greg


I thank the authors of The BIG Tube Manufacturer's List for providing some of the information I have provided.

I also thank Chris (you know which one ), my fanatical partner in valve-amp crime for teaching me so much about glass.

 

[lolzgreg]

Reserved.

 

[Empathy]

Keen. Any opinions on KT88/6550 variants?

 

[kronk_1985]

A huge grey area, and surely a source of head scratching for alot of kids with tube amps.. Can sculpt your whole tone.

 

[lolzgreg]

Keen. Any opinions on KT88/6550 variants?

6550 are awesome in the Engl Savage, as are KT88s.

Winged =C= 6550s and Penta Labs KT88s are my favorites.

 

[kronk_1985]

2ch Dual Rectifier.. What should i put in it?

 

[Lasse Lammert]

Even though there are just those 4 manufacturers there are much more variants with everything but subtle differences IMO.
An EH sounds nothing like a TS or a Sovtek LPS for exMple (IMO the best tube for the phase inverter stage).
Tung sol are also very nice sounding.
Most Russian 12ax7 should not be used in cathode follower stages.
There are roughly 20-30 different 12ax7 to choose from, some of them sound vastly different, even of they're all built by the same 4 companies (especially sovtek and shuguang have a rather big palette).

KRONK: I've experimented a lot with tubes in rectos and will let you know what combination sounds best in them IMO.


Overall a good idea Greg, but I find there's a lot to add and a lot to correct (Mesa also used JJ for example, TAD relabeles sovtek and JJ as well, Tung sols look more like JJ (that star thingy) than like sovteks etc....
I'll post some more later today

 

[lolzgreg]

Sovtek 5881WXT+ in the power section, all JJ in the first 3 preamp tube sockets, Penta in the last 2 preamp tube sockets.

 

[lolzgreg]

Even though there are just those 4 manufacturers there are much more variants with everything but subtle differences IMO.
An EH sounds nothing like a Sovtek LPS for exMple (IMO the best tube for the phase inverter stage).
Tung sol are also very nice sounding.
Most Russian 12ax7 should not be used in cathode follower stages.
There are roughly 30 different 12ax7 to choose from, some of them sound vastly different, even of they're all build by the same 4 companies (especially sovtek and shuguang have a rather big palette).

KRONK: I've experimented a lot with tubes in rectos and will let you know what combination sounds best in them IMO.

The EHs definitely share characteristics with the LPS tubes. They are a lot more similar than a JJ and a Chinese, or a Russian and a JJ, per-se. The Russian preamp tubes are brighter than the Yugos and Chinese in my experience.

I like the EHs better than the LPS in the signal path, but it really depends on the amp. In some amps I really dislike the LPS in the PI as well, so generalizations will get you.

I actually do not like the Tung Sol preamp tubes at all; the top end is irritating to me in nearly everything I try those tubes in.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

The EHs definitely share characteristics with the LPS tubes. They are a lot more similar than a JJ and a Chinese, or a Russian and a JJ, per-se. The Russian preamp tubes are brighter than the Yugos and Chinese in my experience.
.

Depends on what stage they're in, eh react entirely different than LPS in the PI, but can share the same characteristics in a clean channel.
And while JJ sound completely different from LPS in most stages they're more similar to LPS in the PI (compared to eh).
A tube can have an entirely different character in the PI compared to the v1 slot for example
As I said, I like the idea of the guide, but I think it's dangerous to generalize too much.
There's a new chinese made tube (I think), that I have so far only seen at tube-town, it's my new fav in Bogners and on the v1 slot o most amps.
It has a much wider frequency range (even more than the TS) and has an extremely deep and clear bass, smooth and sparkling top end.
Not sure who makes it, but I also looks different as well (from the looks I'd think it's sovtek, but I don't know).

There's some great info about tubes on
www.tube-town.de
Much better store than TAD btw

 

[lolzgreg]

Depends on what stage they're in, eh react entirely different than LPS in the PI, but can share the same characteristics in a clean channel.
And while JJ sound completely different from LPS in most stages they're more similar to LPS in the PI (compared to eh).
A tube can have an entirely different character in the PI compared to the v1 slot for example
As I said, I like the idea of the guide, but I think it's dangerous to generalize too much.
There's a new chinese made tube (I think), that I have so far only seen at tube-town, it's my new fav in Bogners and on the v1 slot o most amps.
It has a much wider frequency range (even more than the TS) and has an extremely deep and clear bass, smooth and sparkling top end.
Not sure who makes it, but I also looks different as well (from the looks I'd think it's sovtek, but I don't know).

There's some great info about tubes on
www.tube-town.de
Much better store than TAD btw

Do you know which tube it is on the webpage?

I don't want to over-generalize, and this is why I definitely want this to be collaborative (since you are king, you can change the title as things progress). If you're up to it, contribute as much as you like, and I'll integrate it in

Cheers

 

[MatrixClaw]

JJ Electronic JJ/Tesla tubes:

I do not recommend these power tubes in any way shape or form. They definitely have the highest failure rate of any power tube currently available. Most of these tubes sound undesirable in my opinion as well.

However, the JJ EL34 really sounds fantastic in some ampllifiers, but the risk of them cherrying (glowing bright red on the verge of explosion) and taking out your output transformer is not worth the marginal tonal benefits in my opinion

Until very recently, I've never heard a single bad thing about JJs. All the sudden, I've been hearing a bunch of horror stories from people on Rig-Talk mainly, weird.

I've been using their power tubes for years, as well as their preamp tubes, and I've never had a single one fail in an untimely fashion and/or do any damage to the amp.

JJ EL-34s and KT-77s are the only current-production power tubes I'll use in a Marshall (and the only KT-77 I'll use in general). I'm not as big of a fan of their 6L6s, but while I hated them in all my stock 5150s/6505s/5150 IIs/6505+s, the quad I have in my bias modded 5150 absolutely slays. SED is usually my preferred choice in a 6L6 power section, while I also like their EL-34s (as well as Rubies) in higher gain amps.

I don't know if it's something up with their recent runs of their tubes, as I haven't bought new tubes in quite a while (I've got a box of about $900 worth of brand new tubes I've acquired over the years ), but I certainly haven't had any issues with them, nor have anyone else I personally know. If anything, JJs have been, by far, the most reliable tubes I've used. Interesting.

 

[Mago]

Wow greg, thanks a lot for the work!
Been wanting to read more on that topic for quite some time!

 

[Lasse Lammert]

You guys really should check out the info area at www.tube-town.de, great stuff on there...
here's an example:

@Greg: the one I was talking about is the one to the very right

 

[lolzgreg]

Until very recently, I've never heard a single bad thing about JJs. All the sudden, I've been hearing a bunch of horror stories from people on Rig-Talk mainly, weird...I don't know if it's something up with their recent runs of their tubes...

I have experienced three sets of JJ EL34s cherry first hand. I have NEVER had another tube go on me, and I've owned a lot of amps

Doug from Doug's Tubes no longer sells JJ EL34s because he said the failure rate/return rate of TESTED quads was over 60%.

Any tube has a noticeable decrease in longevity as the tooling on the tube machines becomes older, but JJ really took the cake during this generation of tubes.

Their preamp tubes, however, are tits.

 

[lolzgreg]

@Greg: the one I was talking about is the one to the very right

Lasse, I have to be honest, those TT tubes are intriguing, but visually, the tube pictured is identical to a Penta Labs 12AX7B.

Both tubes have one pin at the top rear for the Halo; two plates at the top, the upper most which is smooth with small grommets there so it can be attached to the second highest plate; two plates at the bottom sandwiched together; and red material leading to the pins. If the tubes are made in the same plant and are visually identical, what are the chances they are really different?

There are only so many source materials in China for tubes and so many machines producing tubes in one factory. As you know in business, the less products a plant needs to produce in order to make profit, the better in many cases. It is more cost effective to buy materials in bulk, you can get a better deal on several machines with the same tooling, etc.

That's a great chart right there for tube characteristics, by the way

 

[MatrixClaw]

I have experienced three sets of JJ EL34s cherry first hand. I have NEVER had another tube go on me, and I've owned a lot of amps

Doug from Doug's Tubes no longer sells JJ EL34s because he said the failure rate/return rate of TESTED quads was over 60%.

Any tube has a noticeable decrease in longevity as the tooling on the tube machines becomes older, but JJ really took the cake during this generation of tubes.

Their preamp tubes, however, are tits.

Interesting. I've had nearly 100 different tube amps, and a lot of them had JJs in the power section. I've only had power tubes red plate once, and that was because the bias was set incorrectly. I've had preamps go microphonic quite often, but they're usually cheap Sovteks, or Electro Harmonix. JJ are usually the safest bet of them all in the preamp, but I've been preferring Shuguang lately; they're probably not as high a quality of tube, but there's something about them that just sounds awesome

I'll take your word for it though, I trust Doug's opinions, so if he doesn't sell them because of it, there has to be something up! Weird that I've owned so many amps with them over the years and never had any problem, though

 

[Ola Englund]

epic post Greg. I had some good reading!

 

[lolzgreg]

epic post Greg. I had some good reading!

Thanks, Ola

Interesting. I've had nearly 100 different tube amps, and a lot of them had JJs in the power section. I've only had power tubes red plate once, and that was because the bias was set incorrectly. I've had preamps go microphonic quite often, but they're usually cheap Sovteks, or Electro Harmonix. JJ are usually the safest bet of them all in the preamp, but I've been preferring Shuguang lately; they're probably not as high a quality of tube, but there's something about them that just sounds awesome

I'll take your word for it though, I trust Doug's opinions, so if he doesn't sell them because of it, there has to be something up! Weird that I've owned so many amps with them over the years and never had any problem, though

You beat me on quantity

Bias was at 19mA on my Ecstasy that blew through JJs. It's a shame, because I really liked how those tubes sounded in that amplifier. This thread's intent is to be "in with the times." There was absolutely a point in time when the JJ power tubes did the job right.

I think the Shuguangs are actually more robust than the JJs. I've never heard one go microphonic; however, I have thrown JJs at the wall every once and a while

 

[Lasse Lammert]

I'm hearing about bad experiences with JJ over and over again....only from the USA though, perhaps someone importing crap tubes?
I always found JJ to be extremely reliable, both the preamp and the power amp tubes....I only had one tube go bad ever....and that's in like 15 years an LOADS of amps with JJ in them.
I cant say anything about the us vendors, but if you get your JJ from TT or TAD I wouldn't worry.