Major Problem

[Lozek]

Ok, here comes a technical one:
The rig = A Gordon Smith SG, fitted with EMG 81's, being played into a Digitech 2112, through a Mesa Simul-Class 290, out to a rectifier cab with Vintage 30's, a Marshall with G12's and a peavey 5150 with BW's.
Being recorded onto a Mac G4 down to Logic platinum. Each cab has one close mic and one distance mic in an isolated room.

Obviously with that amount of mics, phasing was going to be an issue, but with logic it wasn't difficult to move the waveforms to come back into phase with one another. First track is mixed down and sounds killer, however we come to the second track and we're setting up the mix. The left tracks are fine, however in the right hand tracks, I have a drop in for one part where I had not quite hit things tight enough. When we get to this part, suddenly the guitar sound completely changes even though the drop in was performed with the same rig exactly after the first take, so nothing has changed. 'Of course', says the engineer, getting rid of the phasing on the drop in part.

Problem is, even when all the parts are perfectly in phase, the sound still completely changes on the right hand track, which unbalances the whole mix and just sounds completely wrong.

Any clues, because both myself and the engineer have come out with about a thousand theories about why it's happening and how to fix it, but so far it still sounds wrong.

Cheers

Andy

 

[egan.]

Since no one else has taken a shot I guess I'll weigh in. Did your engineer move all of the tracks "in phase" by the same amount in milliseconds? When you are dealing with two different amps and 4 different mics "in phase" is sort of a relative thing. That is-- you are only ever moving things so they are mostly in phase with the other tracks. There will always be some phasing becuase of room acoustics and variations between the way the amps/speakers act on certain notes. So, If you have moved thing "mostly in phase" by two completely different amounts then you will caused the signals to sum completely differently. When dealing with phase moves you really need to select all edits and punches and move everything on a single track by exactly the same amount. Bassically, if you want your tracks to sound consistant you need to fix everything by the same amount. I hope this helps.

 

[Andy Sneap]

the timing in Logic isnt as good as pt's from what I understand. This is what Ive been told, not out of experience mind.
Have you got more audio happening around this area???
I was once looking into the midi timing issues in PTs and was discussing the difference in timing and what takes priority (midi/audio etc) with a friend who's oppinion I value. He'd come to the conclusion pt was better on the audio side, logic was way better on midi for the actual timing.
Has one of your mic leads (or anything in your chain) become unbalanced??
It's probably the same guy who creeps into my studio overnight a moves things
Its really impossble to say to be honest sorry.

 

[TheSweetener]

If nothing helps, I would rather play four times (2 Digitech, 2 5150 tracks) and would record EVERYTHING first before editing. And AFTER the recording you bounce the tracks (each mic, so you should have 8 tracks) and then move the roomtracks on BOTH guitars with one step. Hope this helps.
Thanks.

 

[Lozek]

Egan - Good point. Yes initially, all takes were moved by the same amount, but it was very noticeable like that.

Andy - Unfortunately it's right on the busiest part of the track, with a particaularly speedy scalic phrase which is also imitated on the bass, plus full drums and vocals as well!!!! We did notice that Logic seemed to be not allowing us to be quite as accurate as we wanted. I'm back in the studio on Wednesday so I'll see if the engineer has come up with any further solutions, I'm not the best on computer tech stuff, I just like loud amps!!!I'll bear the balancing in mind too, thanks.

Sweetener - Much prefer two a side, if you get the sound right then simplicity rules the day (Guess I shoulda applied that to my miking technique, huh?)