Mathcore

[cslebn]

This was a new one by me. I was reading a description of Protest the Hero online and they were referred to as mathcore. My reaction was "WTF is that?" So enter Wiki:

Mathcore is a rhythmically complex and dissonant style of metalcore. It has its roots in bands such as Converge,[1] Botch,[2][3] and the Dillinger Escape Plan.[4] The term mathcore is suggested by analogy with math rock. Both math rock and mathcore make use of unusual time signatures. Math rock groups such as Slint, Don Caballero, Shellac, and Drive Like Jehu have some influence on mathcore, though mathcore is more closely related to metalcore. Prominent mathcore groups have been associated with grindcore.


So people who scream over complex rhythms, check - got it... wait what?

Anyone else ever heard of this before?

As mentioned in the metal was killed thread metal these days is too divided. Is it fun? Does it metal your face and blow your mind? Is it heavy? Jeez. I just found this out of control so I thought I'd share.

 

[TychoCelchu]

Heard of it for a long time but I've never been into it. I sort of "grew up" around that kind of stuff. I don't like Converge or DEP. A few other early-millennium examples include A Life Once Lost, 7 Angels 7 Plagues, Kid Gorgeous, and a horde of bands that didn't make it to a national level. In MI, we had a well-liked math rock (not metal) band called MyComplex in the late 90s. One of their guitar players, a guy named Brian, went on to spend time in a few other successful bands including Boys Night Out and The Receiving End of Sirens.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I've heard of this term for quite some time, mostly in terms of Dillinger and Meshuggah. Surprised you haven't. Just seems like another label, whereas I think the best is just to call them what they are -- prog metal.

 

[TribunalRecords]

Mathcore has been around forever, but i don't like it's usage with metalcore because the bands described have been in the scene longer than the term "metalcore" was created.

i mean BOTCH, CONVERGE, DEP, COALESCE, TURMOIL and countless others have been playing dissonant combination of metal and hardcore since mid-90's. so it's definitely nothing new. it was just something they used to classify a heavier version of Math Rock such as Don Cab, Shellac, etc.

 

[TribunalRecords]

also, talking on this subject it's interesting to note how many of these "math core" bands have already been inducted in Decibel magazine's hall of fame.

Botch "We Are the Romans" (inducted November 2005)
Deadguy "Fixation on a Coworker" (July 2006)
The Dillinger Escape Plan "Calculating Infinity" (December 2006)
Converge "Jane Doe" (January 2008)
Coalesce "0:12 Revolution in Just Listening" (March 2008)

 

[dcowboys311]

Lots of good bands. A handful of GREAT bands. Mostly crap.

Math rock is the same way.

Really talented musicians though.

 

[TribunalRecords]

A handful of GREAT bands.

most definitely.

 

[cslebn]

I've seen Dillinger a couple times and listened to plenty of the bands. I had just never heard this label before; it strikes me as preposterous. It makes sense to some degree, but still still it doesn't sound metal or fun. It sounds like it belongs with the math club (which I remember math club, we payed mario kart at every meeting and that's why people joined )

 

[DemonOfTheWoods]

Mathcore/mathmetal (or whatever you want to call it) is just another ridiculous subgenre. I've heard just about everything when it comes to categorizing metal; Power metal, black metal, traditional metal, death metal, prog metal, extreme metal, folk metal, Pagan metal, Battle metal, Epic metal, Symphonic metal, power progressive metal, progressive power metal, melodic metal, noise metal, math metal, metalcore, forest metal, dragon metal, warrior metal, goblin rock...the list is endless. The amount of ridiculousness is also endless!

To me, mathcore is more along the lines of noise than prog. Prog is well written and complex, where mathcore is, well, just playing whatever regardless and creating noisy squeals and dissonant tones over a five-person-free-for-all-clusterfuck and calling it music, talented, complex, etc.

I used to run a record store. I can't tell you how many times I got into some debate about prog, or even metal, with someone, who usually said something like "Oh, you like prog? do you like Between the Buried & Me?", "I listen to all this crazy prog metal stuff. Ion Dissonance is like the ultimate definition of metal!", or "Iron Maiden isn't metal. Thats just rock. Metal is Between the Buried & Me,
the Red Chord, and Dillinger Escape Plan" Just thinking about those times is starting to piss me off!

I also find it funny how much the whole skater/pop punk crowd turned to this genre. Actually, thats where alot of these bands' backgrounds come from. But thats a whole other rant that I'll save for a later time

 

[TribunalRecords]

BTBAM are a progressive metallic hardcore band. i hate to break it to you, but they can play circles around most progressive musicians. plus their music pushes boundaries on all fronts. if that isn't progressive then i don't really know what it is anymore.

 

[cslebn]

I demand dragoncore! And Elfcore! And Magicalelfprincessridingaunicornwhilefightingdragonscore!


BTBAM will still be better haha. Alaska rules live! :hotjump:

 

[Justin G]

I demand dragoncore! And Elfcore! And Magicalelfprincessridingaunicornwhilefightingdragonscore!

:

You mean Rhapsody?

 

[DemonOfTheWoods]

BTBAM are a progressive metallic hardcore band.

Wow. Thats just as ridiculous as all the other subgenres!

i hate to break it to you, but they can play circles around most progressive musicians.

The stuff I've heard from BtBaM sounds exactly like that...playing circles, triangles, squares, maybe even a rhombus or two!

All joking aside, some of the stuff I heard from them did have some really cool parts, followed by parts that just aren't my thing, so I guess I don't give them enough credit.

plus their music pushes boundaries on all fronts. if that isn't progressive then i don't really know what it is anymore.

Gotcha. They're a different kind of progressive. It's just so many of the bands in that genre just sound like noise, I guess I just lumped BTBAM in with the others. But on another note does boundary-pushing necessarily make a band progressive? Take Volbeat for example. They pushed the boundaries of mixing punk & metal along with rockabilly, rock n' roll, doo-wop, blues, and country to new level, but are they progressive?

 

[TribunalRecords]

Wow. Thats just as ridiculous as all the other subgenres!

well, they are progressive, they are hardcore because their use of breakdowns in their music and they are overall a metal band. i prefer to use the term metallic hardcore instead of metalcore, because it has become a bad word. but BTBAM were part of NC's hardcore scene going all the back to the late 90's in their original band, Prayer For Cleansing.

Gotcha. They're a different kind of progressive. It's just so many of the bands in that genre just sound like noise, I guess I just lumped BTBAM in with the others. But on another note does boundary-pushing necessarily make a band progressive? Take Volbeat for example. They pushed the boundaries of mixing punk & metal along with rockabilly, rock n' roll, doo-wop, blues, and country to new level, but are they progressive?

i don't listen to Volbeat, but any metal or rock band truly pushing modern perceptions of what can be expected i call progressive. like most "progressive" metal bands today aren't progressive to me, like Circus Maximus, Vanden Plas, etc. does it mean i don't like them? hell no, but when you are playing rehashed Dream Theater stuff then how can you be considered progressive? simply because of your time signatures? it has to be something else and considering BTBAM mix it up on each album i consider them more progressive by my definition of it. again, that is just my thoughts on it. i am sure most people will disagree. hahaha

 

[dcowboys311]

To me, mathcore is more along the lines of noise than prog. Prog is well written and complex, where mathcore is, well, just playing whatever regardless and creating noisy squeals and dissonant tones over a five-person-free-for-all-clusterfuck and calling it music, talented, complex, etc.

Nope.

 

[jem777az]

While I generally don't like a lot of the bands that have been listed because of the "core" element (not a big hardcore fan), there are a few really good bands. You have to give them props if only for their technical ability to play incredibly complex music.

I prefer more of the Meshuggah style which has more death metal influences. Another really good band that would fit in this category is After The Burial. They definitely have that Meshuggah vibe going on.

 

[TribunalRecords]

they apparently have a term for Meshuggah worship and it's called "djent" haha.

 

[jem777az]

they apparently have a term for Meshuggah worship and it's called "djent" haha.

Yeah I play guitar and that term is used a lot to describe a certain tone. Apparently a tight palm muted tone is what they mean. Fucking retarded if you ask me lol.

 

[DemonOfTheWoods]

but when you are playing rehashed Dream Theater stuff then how can you be considered progressive? simply because of your time signatures? it has to be something else and considering BTBAM mix it up on each album i consider them more progressive by my definition of it.

Thats actually a really good point, dude. Now I'm starting to feel like an asshole

 

[TribunalRecords]

Thats actually a really good point, dude. Now I'm starting to feel like an asshole

haha, no need to feel that way. it's just my opinion on the term "progressive" and how it's used today. like i said most people will not agree with me that's fine. i still love bands like i mentioned but i don't call them progressive anymore.