Metal: US and the World

[General Zod]

For years I've listened to our non-American Metal brethren take great pleasure in pointing out Metal's lack of popularity here in the good ole U.S. of A. To hear them tell it, you'd think the rest of the world was a Metal paradise, a Metalic Garden of Eden, if you will. You'd think that giant soccer stadiums were overflowing daily with Metal concert-goers and that none of their CD stores could ever hope to keep the latest Metal releases in stock. However, has anyone ever looked at the charts in other countries? It's the same Rap, Hip Hop and general Pop crap that dominates our charts.

Metal on the charts:

UK - nada
Italy - zip
Brazil - zilch
Norway - bupkis
Sweden - zero
Germany - the only band resembling Metal is Lordi... if you want to brag about that, be my guest

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that Metal is more popular in the states or that it isn't more popular elsewhere. Metal obviously enjoys greater popularity in many other countries. I'm merely suggesting to our non-US, Metal compatriots, that they put down their stones and recognize that they're throwing them from glass houses. Perhaps they could refrain, until such time as their charts aren't dominated by Shakira, Nelly Furtado and Busta Rhymes.

Zod

 

[Iced Ray]

Yeah, I agree with that. Metal is not dominating the airwaves and stadiums in other places but here and there, you will see it a bit more to the forefront.

For example, Manowar play to what...a couple of hundred in small clubs in the US? However, in Europe, they will play to maybe 3000 - 5000 people in certain countries.

 

[AngraRULES]

Zod,

If you're referring to me and my comment that I made on another thread regarding the US metal scene/market, it doesn't make me change my opinion. Popularity doesn't mean it's on the charts as far as I'm concerned. Metal is underground in all of these countries that you mention. However, in most of them the "underground metal scene" is still much (MUCH) bigger and much more active than here in the USA. I'm not sure if you've ever had the chance to go investigate further scenes in a country like Brazil or Germany. I've had the opportunity, and I'm sorry but they sure as hell are stronger.

It's funny. Metal isn't in our charts (Brazil, in this case), but still every freaking metal band that gets down there, manages to get thousands of people in the show. And every single show they play! I believe the last Edguy show in Sao Paulo gathered 7.000 people if I'm not wrong! Think about it, it's a fucking whole lotta people! And it's not like they only play one show in the whole country!

Also, you're forgetting the fact that a country such as Brazil is much poorer than the USA. In other words, chances are metalheads in America are gonna be spending *LOTS AND LOTS* of money in CD's. Just look at all of us at ProgPower and online, buying more than 5, 10, 15 cd's at a time. Of course there's a bigger chance metal will get to the charts here than there cuz more people are buying. The market for metal is not very good economically in Brazil, just as well as the market for other music isn't too strong either. Due to the lack of money the average music/metal lover has down there, piracy dominates in Brazil. To give you an idea, I've seen friends from Brazil asking me to send them a few CD's of a band like Opeth for instance, because they refused to pay the absurd $55 that people were asking for.

You can't compare two situations that are absolutely different! It's like you're comparing Wacken to ProgPower in popularity and attendance, without thinking about the different venue capacities and such...

 

[General Zod]

If you're referring to me and my comment that I made on another thread regarding the US metal scene/market, it doesn't make me change my opinion.

Not at all. I was just following that thread and it got me thinking about it, so I looked up the charts.

Metal is underground in all of these countries that you mention.

It is here as well. I've been to sold out shows by Iced Earth, Opeth, Isis, Dimmu Borgir that drew well over 1,000 folks. No publicity, no radio play, no video play, just an underground scene.

However, in most of them the "underground metal scene" is still much (MUCH) bigger and much more active than here in the USA.

Agreed. I never suggested otherwise.

I'm not sure if you've ever had the chance to go investigate further scenes in a country like Brazil or Germany. I've had the opportunity, and I'm sorry but they sure as hell are stronger.

To date, I have not. Though I hope to go to Wacken next year, as I hear they have a Metal band or two down there every August.

Zod

 

[edgeofthorns]

For years I've listened to our non-American Metal brethren take great pleasure in pointing out Metal's lack of popularity here in the good ole U.S. of A. To hear them tell it, you'd think the rest of the world was a Metal paradise, a Metalic Garden of Eden, if you will. You'd think that giant soccer stadiums were overflowing daily with Metal concert-goers and that none of their CD stores could ever hope to keep the latest Metal releases in stock. However, has anyone ever looked at the charts in other countries? It's the same Rap, Hip Hop and general Pop crap that dominates our charts.

Metal on the charts:

UK - nada
Italy - zip
Brazil - zilch
Norway - bupkis
Sweden - zero
Germany - the only band resembling Metal is Lordi... if you want to brag about that, be my guest

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that Metal is more popular in the states or that it isn't more popular elsewhere. Metal obviously enjoys greater popularity in many other countries. I'm merely suggesting to our non-US, Metal compatriots, that they put down their stones and recognize that they're throwing them from glass houses. Perhaps they could refrain, until such time as their charts aren't dominated by Shakira, Nelly Furtado and Busta Rhymes.

Zod

I've noticed that too. I believe the Euro stuff goes over better in other countries, so I believe that's where the misconception for us comes from on this board. I have to admit, I'm guilty of thinking Germany is a haven of metal, but in reality, it probably isn't.

Another thing that I find strange is that bands like Within Temptation, Nightwish, and Edguy can play the same festivals that bands like Staind and Slipknot play in Europe. That gives me the impression that the average European metal fan is a little more open minded than our average U.S. metal fan. That's just a theory of mine and by no means am I insulting anyone. I'm a proud American myself, but we're discussing music taste, not patriotism here.

 

[Cheiron]

The U.S. is huge. The underground exists, but its spread all over, and its not as easy as hopping on a cheap train ride to go to a show.

 

[edgeofthorns]

The U.S. is huge. The underground exists, but its spread all over, and its not as easy as hopping on a cheap train ride to go to a show.

That's a good point.

 

[General Zod]

I think a good part of the reason that Metal is bigger in Europe is the cost of travel and touring. Since many of the musicians who play the type of Metal we listen to, call places other than the U.S. home, it's easier for them to reach the European audiences. They don't need to get on a plane, deal with visas, etc. I imagine touring the U.S. is a pain in the ass, especially post 9/11.

Zod

 

[J-Man]

The U.S. is huge. The underground exists, but its spread all over, and its not as easy as hopping on a cheap train ride to go to a show.

Excellent point, there is a following here, it's everywhere but this country is so large it seems that there is just a small following.

 

[General Zod]

The U.S. is huge. The underground exists, but its spread all over, and its not as easy as hopping on a cheap train ride to go to a show.

I think your partially correct. However, if the underground was deceptively large (due to being spread out), record sales should reflect this. Unfortunately, record sales for Metal are quite low in the U.S.

Zod

 

[edgeofthorns]

I think your partially correct. However, if the underground was deceptively large (due to being spread out), record sales should reflect this. Unfortunately, record sales for Metal are quite low in the U.S.

Zod

I blame that alot on record companies. Some do better jobs than others when promoting bands, touring, etc. The Roadrunner/Dragonforce thing is an example of that. I agree with what you are saying though.

 

[Dark One]

I have been to other parts of the world where the metal scene is both stronger and promoted better - it's the lacking of promotion that I have a problem with in the U.S., otherwise, I haven't seen any areas of the world where I get the sense that the masses are not easily led in some way shape or form in some walk of life. While I don't like it, I'm not going to look down on our society any more than I do other societies just because the music I like isn't promoted in the same fashion. Some would say our food is better, some would say our movies and television programs are better, and of course some wouldn't. Whatever the case, our society is just as relevant as anyone else's.

 

[Jibrille]

You also run into the issue of American releases for a lot of European bands coming months after their European releases. I've got many an import CD because I don't want to wait. Plus, the company releasing in Europe often produces a nicer package for the album, too. While there are people that will buy a US release even if they have the European release, many will not. I'll only buy the US release if it offers something more to it like Roadrunner did with Nightwish's Once.

 

[Yippee38]

I think your partially correct. However, if the underground was deceptively large (due to being spread out), record sales should reflect this. Unfortunately, record sales for Metal are quite low in the U.S.

Zod

But to some extent that's a catch 22. Bands promote themselves by touring, right? If so, and they don't tour the US, doesn't it makes sense that they'll be exposed to fewer potential fans. I don't mean to say that it makes up the difference between the US and the European markets. I just mean if there were more metal bands touring, metal grow in popularity a bit.

Not only is touring the US probably costly and a PITA for a band, but it's a PITA for the potential concert attendees too. How many times do you read somebody saying, "I wish they were coming to <poster's state>"? Because it's a PITA, they can't tour everywhere. Casual listeners, who might become more avid fans with more shows, don't have that chance because it's too expensive, or takes to much time to travel to the closest show with is hundreds of miles away.

 

[General Zod]

But to some extent that's a catch 22. Bands promote themselves by touring, right?

Agreed.

Not only is touring the US probably costly and a PITA for a band, but it's a PITA for the potential concert attendees too.

While I see your point, if you don't live within driving distance of a major US city, than this has to be somewhat expected. No matter how big an act is, their only go to play the most the most densely populated areas.

Zod

 

[FatesFan]

We all know that PPUSA draws 900+ people. How many people attend PPEurope?

 

[Harvester]

We all know that PPUSA draws 900+ people. How many people attend PPEurope?

1,200+ (gold badges, guest lists, press).

 

[FatesFan]

1,200+ (gold badges, guest lists, press).

Very interesting.

 

[Angrafan]

The gap is not as big as everyone thinks... I mean, when it comes to Power Metal, yeah.. the gap is pretty big

But in terms of extreme metal the US must be right up there...


Bands are touring in Europe playing for 400, 500 people as well.. It's not like every band is playing for thousands of people every night..

 

[urinalcakemix]

My only statement on this subject is:

Im sure if we were to bring proportions and overall population into the equation that Europe would win in a landslide.

USA = 296 million people
Germany = 83 Million
Sweden = 10 million
Norway = 4.5 millon
Italy = 58 million
These are rough figures, rounded UP to the nearest million [sans Italy, 58.1] (courtesy google.com, naturally).

Now, with these theories- with USA's population being roughly 3.75:1 over Germany, that a band that plays for 1000 people in Germany would have to draw 3,750 for the markets to be the same in terms of popularity/strength.