metal?

[Heliologue]

what do you think? is metal a sound or a spirit?

for instance, almost all of us like some bands that aren't extreme. is it because they embody the "spirit" of metal (being true and not bending over for record companies, writing their own stuff, etc etc etc)

or does something have to be extreme at least some of the time to be classified as "metal"?

 

[Obyeybyeogone]

Good question.

Hmmm... I think as long as they are occasionally "extreme", and they embody the rest of the metal "spirit", then it is metal.

 

[Devilish monster from the hill]

Well, metal for me is more than just a sound.

Metal teached me to think beyond, and not just to follow the rest, to love nature, to be myself, not doing something because it's "cool", etc.

 

[StorTroll]

For me it´s the spirit, I think. I consider Black Sabbath as metal
more than Korn even though Korn sound harder....blah..........

 

[Heliologue]

i like to use Ulver as an example.

bergtatt is undeniably metal, having both extreme spots, and folk parts.

but then when kveldssanger came out, it was entirely folk spots. same music as on the soft parts of bergtatt, but without the extreme.

does that make the music any less "metal"?

i don't think so. i think metal is not so much a genre as it is a belief in writing good music. it's like the antithesis to pop: metal is creating music for the sake of music, rather than money or fans.

but i think that philosophy can go too far. like people who say that dimmu borgir "sold out."

 

[Kveldssanger]

oh, come on!!! do you think that the definition of pop is "creating music for the money"?? I don't agree. In all kinds of music there are those who are interested in the music and those who are interested in the money.

 

[LostInFog]

I think labeling things is just a waste of time. Except for the warning labels on the bleach. I don't know how many times that thing saved my ass.

 

[Heliologue]

Ahem. "pop" as in "popular" as in "bought by many people" as in "make the artist rich"

if pop stars were so concerned about the music, they'd actually, um, write it.

 

[XrequiemaeternamX]

so if anything is popular, it is automatically pop? Blind Guardian's new album is #5 on German charts, #1 on Greece Charts, and has top positioning on many other European charts. They are, in essence, popular. Does that make them pop? Or are they both pop and metal?

Just something to think about....

 

[Heliologue]

i'm working from an american frame of references, where rap and backstreet boys and "j-lo" constantly top the charts.

i think in terms of genre, "pop" is very obvious: when you hear pop on the radio, it's easily recognized as pop, and that's what the public eats up.

that's why i'd rather live in europe!

 

[Kushantaiidan]

Pop music is not only pop, but it is music designed by professional "Pop music designers" who design them to be compatible with the stupid masses, these designers then CHOSSE the appropriate pop artist (Who I beleive do have talent in what they do, which is take a product and sell it) and then they perform it. The music is then sold to people and makes lots of money for the performers, producers and record companies. This is what pop music is.

A band that sells or goes pop is a band that turns partially or fully to this process. And bands like Blind Guardian, though they may be very popular haven't done this (To my knowledge anyway, I don't really know.. but I'm just using the above advantage). So you don't just have to be pop to do this. As opeth gets more popular, it won't be because they've tried to appeal to the masses, or because they've sold out, it will be because they have talent, and their music is good. Pop music is and never will be good, because in general, our minds are too advanced for Pop music, while the general population can still enjoy it. We need something more stimulating..

 

[Entropy]

Metal is definately a spirit but so is all music. i think that the true way to express the way you feel/ think is through music and poetry. So Metal is a devision on the soul.

 

[Pieguy]

Metal has nothing to do with heaviness. I think metal can be defined as any kind of rock music with complexity, frequent use of leads, and classical influence. Hard rock can be defined as pop music with power chords.

 

[Blue Moon]

Personally, I really don't think metal necessarilly means good music or "daring to be different", I'd say that most of the time it is the contrary. Look at all the bands that sound the same and rape the crativity of each other (troo black, death, power, etc). In each of those categories you have the pioneers and you have the followers, so originality is not the matter I am afraid. Each metal sub-genre has one or some creators of the style, then others followed the sound and pushed it further.

Best metal bands are those that have their own sound and personality without repeating themselves. Best exemple I can think of at this moment is Garm, an awesome artist most of you know that I discovered lately. From Themes from William Blake to La Masquerade Infernale, you can tell he is the songwriter though you cannot say he's repeating any formula. If you don't believe me, check out Ulver's Perdition City, one of his best work IMHO. I've yet to be convinced by his black metal origins, though Nattens Madrigal has its good moments. Kveldssanger is excellent as well.

Damn I sounded arrogant... sorry 'bout that !

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

I don't even say that i listen to 'metal', even thought i am a devowed metalhead at heart... If the musicians are doing their 'own thing', and it works out awesomely, such as Days of the new, or The Tea Party, then i will love the band... wether it is metal or not.

Metal is spirit to me...

 

[Blue Moon]

Oh, despite what I wrote, I still love metal for the feelings it procures, I just don't like the attitude some bands have while having a minimum of talent. Geniuses are humble.

 

[Kveldssanger]

Originally posted by Kushantaiidan
Pop music is not only pop, but it is music designed by professional "Pop music designers" who design them to be compatible with the stupid masses, these designers then CHOSSE the appropriate pop artist (Who I beleive do have talent in what they do, which is take a product and sell it) and then they perform it. The music is then sold to people and makes lots of money for the performers, producers and record companies. This is what pop music is.

A band that sells or goes pop is a band that turns partially or fully to this process. And bands like Blind Guardian, though they may be very popular haven't done this (To my knowledge anyway, I don't really know.. but I'm just using the above advantage). So you don't just have to be pop to do this. As opeth gets more popular, it won't be because they've tried to appeal to the masses, or because they've sold out, it will be because they have talent, and their music is good. Pop music is and never will be good, because in general, our minds are too advanced for Pop music, while the general population can still enjoy it. We need something more stimulating..

So what you're basically saying is that if something we like becomes popular it's because the band has talent, but if something we don't like becomes popular it's because they sold out and their music is designed 'to be compatible with the stupid masses". And that comment about our intellect compared to that of that of the general population is a bit arrogant, don't you think?
And if we taje the definition of pop as something popular, then I guess we should consider band like Iron Maiden or Black Sabbath at their peak as pop bands because their sales at the time were enormous. I believe that's the problem with labeling, you can't just discard a whole bunch of artists just because what they do is categorized as pop. That's my humble opinion and I'm sorry if I sounded too provocative...

 

[Alexandre]

Pop music is and never will be good, because in general, our minds are too advanced for Pop music, while the general population can still enjoy it. We need something more stimulating..

Don´t agree. Pop is not a synonym of crap music nor Metal is a synonym of good music. You have to open your eyes (or ears).

 

[YaYo]

Originally posted by Kushantaiidan
Pop music is not only pop, but it is music designed by professional "Pop music designers" who design them to be compatible with the stupid masses, these designers then CHOSSE the appropriate pop artist (Who I beleive do have talent in what they do, which is take a product and sell it) and then they perform it. The music is then sold to people and makes lots of money for the performers, producers and record companies. This is what pop music is.

A band that sells or goes pop is a band that turns partially or fully to this process. And bands like Blind Guardian, though they may be very popular haven't done this (To my knowledge anyway, I don't really know.. but I'm just using the above advantage). So you don't just have to be pop to do this. As opeth gets more popular, it won't be because they've tried to appeal to the masses, or because they've sold out, it will be because they have talent, and their music is good. Pop music is and never will be good, because in general, our minds are too advanced for Pop music, while the general population can still enjoy it. We need something more stimulating..

I keep having to say this to people... money is simply a part of the pop industry. It is not the ENTIRE pop industry. Those pop artists who you claim are just in it for the money are still writing songs at home and singing them to their friends, why?

The pop industry:
1. PERFECT the basic skills to write/play music.
2. Get a good image (this includes being good looking, or having a gimmick like masks, making your product look like other similar products,etc etc)
3. Write music to express yourself, or chose music that you enjoy or connect with.
4. Advertise it well and get it selling
5. etc
6. etc

the important step is number 3 and most people leave it out. These musicians shouldnt be called the best of course, but they are still expressing themselves as accurately as they can using the limited range of abilities and musical knowledge which they have.

im just saying dont go thinking these people dont love music, that these people dont cry to songs or dont get uplifted by songs, or that these people dont pour their hearts into their music.. because they do. There are certainly many bad things (in musical/art terms) about the pop industry (the emphasis on image, the lack of a complete musical knowledge, the money thing, the lack of true originality..i dont mean just mixing your 2 favourite artists together to create a new sound... etc etc) but dont ignore the good things about the good things about the pop industry.





oh and Metal.. as with any categorising word has too many descriptions, hence its meaning is numerous. I chose to call something either music and art or not one/both those things... the other things i simply use to describe the type of sound/structure/etc they have and use... this 'metal spirit' is really just a 'music/art spirit' which doesnt exist in the entire metal industry i think.

 

[Hellion]

Originally posted by saturnix
Ahem. "pop" as in "popular" as in "bought by many people" as in "make the artist rich"

if pop stars were so concerned about the music, they'd actually, um, write it.

Some pop artists do write their own material. Not so much these days, but it does happen...Bjork, although she errs more to the leftfield than pop these days, The Beautiful South, Madonna...just a few pop artists that write their own stuff.