Micing Heavy Guitar Frustration

A

afxwinter

Member
Aug 14, 2007
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I keep trying to move my mics around to solve my issues but there's always something lacking. I really need all the help I can get, so I was hoping some more experienced people could point me in the right direction.

My setup:
Gibson Les Paul Custom Emg (81/60) -> Mesa Boogie Mark III -> Rane PE15 Parametric EQ -> Mesa Recto 2x12 -> SM57 + MD421 -> M-Audio DMP3 -> Delta 44 -> Cubase
I've been trying to make this setup work by putting the MD421 an inch away from my cab's rear panel straight on and reversing the phase while trying the SM57 at either a straight on angle, or a 45 degree angle around an inch from the cloth.

Issues:
The SM57:
If I put it too close to the center of the speaker you can hear a kind of fizzy hiss faintly over everything which is a result of using a medium amount of gain + treble from the amp. If I move the mic further from the center I pick up a lot of woofiness which is impossible to post-EQ out.

The MD421:
Since there's a wall about a foot behind my cab it doesn't leave a lot of air back there. And since that mic is technically pointing at me, it picks up my string/pick noise and any room noise way too well, so I've 'isolated' it with pillows and blankets. The problem with the mic is once it's turned up in the mix enough to add some rumble to the sound there's a strange hollowness introduced to the sound. It appears to be in phase because the db get raised along with the bass freq when it's turned up in the mix.

Tracking:
A single take always sounds pretty good, but once I do 3 takes (left - right - center) I can really hear the hollowness in my sound. I want it to sound huge and up-front somehow and it's just not happening.

Examples:
Here's everything I've recorded recently
home.cogeco.ca/~mblack4/mp3/afxwinter%20-%20The%20Wait.mp3
home.cogeco.ca/~mblack4/mp3/afxwinter%20-%2011-16-2008-2.mp3
home.cogeco.ca/~mblack4/mp3/afxwinter%20-%2012-05-2008.mp3
home.cogeco.ca/~mblack4/mp3/afxwinter%20-%20Lateralus6.mp3
home.cogeco.ca/~mblack4/mp3/afxwinter%20-%2012-08-08.mp3

I'd really like to hear some suggestions for how to get my tone sounding as good as possible. My favorite sounding guitar tone which I measure all other tones by would have to be Metallica's Black Album if that helps any. Thanks a lot guys!
 
from what it sounds like to me is you need to find a good tone between your guitar and your amp, first. sounds like your mic'ing isn't the issue. please don't take offense to this but your timing can use work too. unless you're just messing around for the purpose of showing us your tone.
 
if you're having difficulty with phase issues; try using just one mic first; get a good sound out of it; experiment with it; get to know the sound and then try and add a second mic.

the 412 is an excellent choice. what I usually do is put them both directly against the grill cloth, at the edge of the dustcap. I usually have little problem with phase this way.

Good luck and let us know how you progress!
 
afxwinter said:
... But one thing that had happened for a lot of those clips is that my metrinome was 1/16 off lol. ...
Click to expand...

slide the gtr track around until it feels good.

your tracks seems to have a tunnel tone flavor. Maybe drop back to one mic and spend a month only learning/doing that.
 
Thanks for the suggestion, I think I'm pretty comfortable with single micing as I've been using a single SM57 for a couple years, it's only recently I got the MD421. Maybe it's just that for my setup the rear-mic technique doesn't work. The mic at the back being in a closed space vs the one in the front being open may be causing the tunnel effect. Here's how it sounds with just the SM57. afxwinter - Turn the Page3.mp3
Maybe I should go back to 2 mics on the front?
 
are you micing one cab front and one cab back... if so, are you flipping the polarity on one mic?
 
afxwinter said:
I've been trying to make this setup work by putting the MD421 an inch away from my cab's rear panel straight on and reversing the phase while trying the SM57 at either a straight on angle, or a 45 degree angle around an inch from the cloth.
Click to expand...

Dude, I can't listen now, but what on Earth would possess you to do such a thing? o_O Multi-mic'ing is very simple: get the first mic sounding as good as possible on one speaker, then put the other mic on another speaker (so you can position it without bumping into the first), and move it around until they both sound good together (making sure both are an equal distance from the grille cloth). DONE.

Now the easiest way to do this is to get a LONG headphone extension cable, record enable both mics, have them both panned center, and crank up the amp's gain and volume so you get a fuckload of hiss. Then, listening to both mics with your headphones on in front of the cab, move the second around (cuz the first is already in a good spot) until they sound good together. It's even better if you can have someone playing through the amp while doing this (or reamp a signal), but the hiss method works as well if not better for me I'm finding, cuz it's more consistent and easier to hear the dreaded FIZZ.
 
Metaltastic said:
Dude, I can't listen now, but what on Earth would possess you to do such a thing? o_O Multi-mic'ing is very simple: get the first mic sounding as good as possible on one speaker, then put the other mic on another speaker (so you can position it without bumping into the first), and move it around until they both sound good together (making sure both are an equal distance from the grille cloth). DONE.

Now the easiest way to do this is to get a LONG headphone extension cable, record enable both mics, have them both panned center, and crank up the amp's gain and volume so you get a fuckload of hiss. Then, listening to both mics with your headphones on in front of the cab, move the second around (cuz the first is already in a good spot) until they sound good together. It's even better if you can have someone playing through the amp while doing this (or reamp a signal), but the hiss method works as well if not better for me I'm finding, cuz it's more consistent and easier to hear the dreaded FIZZ.
Click to expand...

+1.003
 
I used your advice and setup both mics using a combination of the hum from the amp and the sound from the guitar to move them a bit. I took out a lot of highs from my amp settings and upped the presence a little. I also removed any mid cut from my para EQ. Let me know if anything stands out to you as sounding fucked up or not. Thanks!
afxwinter - Turn the Page6.mp3
 
^that works for the style. I might add a tad more gain, just enough to sustain a bit better, but over all gain and eq really works. you should focus at getting a more comtemporary and solid drum tone.
 
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