Minimizing sanre spill on overheads

[DanAbela]

Hi, my names dan and im new to the forum but have read alot of topics and has helped me alot with my home recording, especially things like the multiband compressor setting for guitars and apptrigga (best drum plug in ever)

One thing ive found tho when i record is i always get alot of spill from the snare from into my overheads, im using two small diaphram condensers about a foot and a bit above the cymbals. how do you guys on here get the snare sound so isolated?

Thanks

Dan

 

[Asmus_Thomsen]

In my humble opinion, the snare mostly benefits from being present in the OH's - OH's are not just for cymbals, but if you need greater separation then you need to experient with placement of the mic - try pointing them against the cymbals, away from the middle of the drumkit. Also a lowcut up to around 600hz will remove some of the snare - and will clean your OH's up nicely......

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Maybe try rolling off a little more of the low end eq.

 

[MR NINE]

Try to place the overheads under the cymbals.
Or put a mic on each cymbal (if you have enough!?!)
Watch out for the out of phase symptom!

 

[DanAbela]

Try to place the overheads under the cymbals.
Or put a mic on each cymbal (if you have enough!?!)
Watch out for the out of phase symptom!

yeah i gave this one a go, gave some really interesting results, sounded a bit to "clangly" for my liking tho. thanks for all the tips tho, theyve came in handy

 

[Glenn Fricker]

. how do you guys on here get the snare sound so isolated?

Thanks

Dan

Snare in the overheads is a good thing. That's where you're going to get "air" on it without resorting to an EQ. How 'isolated' the snare sounds is much more related to how the drummer hits the kit, as opposed to anything from an engineering standpoint. You can gate the snare mic for a little more isolation, but the best course of action is to have the drummer hit the snare harder, and the cymbals softer.
-0z-

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Snare in the overheads is a good thing. That's where you're going to get "air" on it without resorting to an EQ. How 'isolated' the snare sounds is much more related to how the drummer hits the kit, as opposed to anything from an engineering standpoint. You can gate the snare mic for a little more isolation, but the best course of action is to have the drummer hit the snare harder, and the cymbals softer.
-0z-

i totally agree...the only problem is if you're punching in a bad snare hit, things get more difficult the more the snare is in the other mics, obviously.

 

[vile_ator]

This is a little late, dont know if youll see the post but Andy has already given the answer and it works. Place the mics above the outer edge of the cymbals facing out away from the kit. Works great to keep toms and snare out of the mix. Must trigger snare though cause a good normal snare sound has OHs in the mix.

Colin

 

[Andy Sneap]

I actually try and get the snare out of the oh's, I spoke with Colin R and Doug Hall about this at length and we all have differing oppinions.

One thing I tried the otherday, which worked amazingly well was SM98's underneath the cymbals. One on each. I've used the 98 underneath the ride alot and always got great separation, so godknows why I hadn't tried this before. I'm going to get some of the Audio Technica ATM35's to try out like this. One thing you can try is the side chain trick of sending your snare sample into a limiter side chain on your oh's and almost duck the snare by setting a real fast attack/release, heavy ratio. Becareful with this though, you can kill China hits because they tend to land with snares.

 

[~BURNY~]

Sometimes, widener plugins such as S1-shuffler are helpful at hiding the center of stereo image. In some case only...
Maybe there's a way to put the sd out of phase in the OH (as long as you're using triggers, this should be interesting)... I can't see how exactly, just a thought.
I have to admit that I like having some sd in the oh. I just use a limiter if needed and a high pass filter but I understand that it can be an issue.

 

[~BURNY~]

Ok, now I'm raving about phase cancellation.
Instead of two microphones, imagine that you have four microphones.
Two microphones side by side (or xy maybe) on the left and the same on the right.
Use a phase inverter on one microphone on each pair.
Only high frequencies should remain.... Yes I know, I'm a little today... Not shure about the result... Probably very thin sounding cymbals.


EDIT: Just tested by duplicating existing OH and shifting the time slightly... Sounds like shit. Sorry about that...

 

[~BURNY~]

Ok, even more tricky (but seems to work ok):
Once you recorded your drums,
Duplicate your overheads tracks.
The settings must be the same on the original and duplicated tracks (pan, level eq, comp, all the same...).
Flip the phase on duplicated tracks.
Put a noise gate on it.
Duplicate SD track.
Use the duplicated SD track to trigger the noise gate. (This track should not be routed into the master buss)
You can slightly shift the duplicated SD track in time to compansate attack latency from the gate and avoid extreme fast attak setting (no cliking gate).
That is the reason why you should use a duplicated sd track insted of the original which need to stay in phase.
Set a fast release. As fast as possible.
Now, every snare hit should disapear (out of phase) from your Overheads.
Add a low pass filter (over 4khz or so) on the duplicated oh tracks to keep the high frequencies running during the snare hits but It should be smoother if you lower the level of the tracks by 3db or so. Now you have a multiband side-chain ducker/gate...
You can also play slightly with the level and see what happen.


Sorry for my awful english , hope this helps.
I should call it the "~BURNY~ TRICK"

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Holy shit that works well!! Thanks guys...