Monitoring volume

selke61

Music Producing Ginger
Jan 25, 2011
365
0
16
Ok, I have been kicking my speakers ass lately. And around here, I've been reading people have really quiet mixes (before the mastering stage). I usually record bands completely dry. Only a few limiters, compressors and temporary EQ settings on each track. Nothing on the master bus, and it clips up till like +4-6dbs. Now I assume that isn't smart, so if I turn my master bus down to a good level, would turning up my M-Audios be better? I just like it to be loud when I'm tracking bands so they can get into it. How do you guys track. (Not mix)

Here's a separate question:

Now for bass drops and reverse snares and what not, I wait for that stuff after we are done recording. Like I usually record the one song, then if I approve of the bass drops placement (fuckers usually want like 8 in one song 0.o) they complain it's not loud enough. I try to tell them I don't have a sub and my speakers only cover a little bit of the low end, and it's like I'm talking to a herd of mindless goats. It's super annoying. I humor them and turn it up just some, and they're like, "I still can't hear it." That's when I face palm. So should I just tell them straight up, "I don't have sub. Deal with it."? And on a sidenote, what are some good speakers that can capture a bass drop around 65hz that aren't widely expensive. I want to invest bigger and better ones. I have a pair of tiny M-Audio Studiophile AV-40's. Or ones that you can hook up a sub woofer, cause mine can't. Thanks a lot!!!
 
There are some KRK Subs on ebay for about $300. It can hook up to pretty much any monitor that has the outs for it. I'm about to get some KRK Rokit 6's within the next week. They have freq response all the way to like 43hz which is pretty awesome as compared to the rokit 5's for them to only be $50 more. You can totally get a pair of them on ebay for like $300 as well.
 
There are some KRK Subs on ebay for about $300. It can hook up to pretty much any monitor that has the outs for it. I'm about to get some KRK Rokit 6's within the next week. They have freq response all the way to like 43hz which is pretty awesome as compared to the rokit 5's for them to only be $50 more. You can totally get a pair of them on ebay for like $300 as well.

Sounds perfect to me. I'll have to invest in those pretty soon. I also wish I could snag a Mac Pro Desktop.
 
Now I assume that isn't smart, so if I turn my master bus down to a good level, would turning up my M-Audios be better? I just like it to be loud when I'm tracking bands so they can get into it. How do you guys track. (Not mix)

Buy a decibel meter and a volume controller (or if your interface has a master volume knob like for example M-Audio Profire's do, use that instead) for the monitors. Calibrate your monitors with pink noise to play at 85dB when your volume is half way on the volume controller (for mixing) and then never touch the volume control on the monitors ever again. And to be honest, I would change those monitors... A friend of mine had them, really not good for mixing tbh. Good enough for editing tho. If you want something that also covers the subwoofer range, try Behringer B2031A Truth's.

PS: I renamed the thread because you really didn't ask anything about tracking bands but about monitoring levels, so it was kinda misleading.
 
Buy a decibel meter and a volume controller (or if your interface has a master volume knob like for example M-Audio Profire's do, use that instead) for the monitors. Calibrate your monitors with pink noise to play at 85dB when your volume is half way on the volume controller (for mixing) and then never touch the volume control on the monitors ever again. And to be honest, I would change those monitors... A friend of mine had them, really not good for mixing tbh. Good enough for editing tho. If you want something that also covers the subwoofer range, try Behringer B2031A Truth's.

PS: I renamed the thread because you really didn't ask anything about tracking bands but about monitoring levels, so it was kinda misleading.

Oh yeah, sorry. Thank you. And I was thinking about getting some Behringers or some monstrous speakers. I don't like my speakers. They are too quiet and they are louder on one side. So annoying!!!!

Anyways, what is pink noise? And my interface is a UX2. I'm going to upgrade sometime in the future, but it gets the job done for now. It has a master volume output that I plug my monitors into. I usually have those cranked, but it's still quiet, and of course since my mix is clipping while I'm tracking, it's all distorted. It could be my speakers. They get really bad around the halfway point on the volume knobs.
 
pink noise is filtered white noise, 3db roll off filter (pink filter) on every octave. it has equal energy per frequency.


i typically move between signal level ...however i prefer to mix a lower levels. in most cases lfe (sub) is useless (for music production) because most people don't have a sub and therefore are unnecessary in my book.

you can offset the lower frequency content by purchasing a larger driver... like 7-8" monitors.
 
i typically move between signal level ...however i prefer to mix a lower levels. in most cases lfe (sub) is useless (for music production) because most people don't have a sub and therefore are unnecessary in my book.

That's what I try telling them, that most people don't even have good sound systems and they're like "But we can't even hear them on anything." I tell them, in a car stock stereo system, you might hear them a bit, but on anything like laptops and cellphones, Ipods (unless you have good headphones) etc; you won't hear them. Then the wise ass pulled out his phone and played a The Air I Breathe song and was like "I so can hear the bass drop there." He was dead serious. How do you handle these amateurs? They think that bass drops are instruments and placing them everywhere is necessary and that practically drowning out the song with them is good. Well, I don't and I like to preserve my mixes and not blow my speakers. That's why I want good speakers so that when I'm tracking them they can hear them and shut up.
 
the best way to make these sounds more audible is by using a frequency enhancer... something like waves maxxbass or lo-air will help with upper aural harmonics therefore make the "bass" seem to have more presence.

or you can just mix the sound really loud and totally mess up your master.


the bottom line is this: the band has probably heard a bunch of subdrops used in songs enough to know that it is possible. that means you need to make it happen ...and if you can't then you are not providing a specific service. if you are incapable of rendering this service, simply have them pay you for your time and move on (without adding subdrops).

otherwise, try to manage with equipment you currently have and do your best to provide the service they initially asked for and not get so caught up on some petty sound effect that gets overused in the first place.


can you dig it? ;)
 
the best way to make these sounds more audible is by using a frequency enhancer... something like waves maxxbass or lo-air will help with upper aural harmonics therefore make the "bass" seem to have more presence.

or you can just mix the sound really loud and totally mess up your master.


the bottom line is this: the band has probably heard a bunch of subdrops used in songs enough to know that it is possible. that means you need to make it happen ...and if you can't then you are not providing a specific service. if you are incapable of rendering this service, simply have them pay you for your time and move on (without adding subdrops).

otherwise, try to manage with equipment you currently have and do your best to provide the service they initially asked for and not get so caught up on some petty sound effect that gets overused in the first place.


can you dig it? ;)

That's what I'm saying. I think its overused, so I try to tend it, and it's kind of hard to give them what they want, because they like everything that I do, it's just that they think they can't hear the sub drops when I can, but when I make them louder it sounds super distorted and it obviously isn't good for my speakers but they're like "Perfect!"

So yeah, they know it's possible, but obviously they've heard it on speakers that could handle it. So that's why I'm investing in new gear. And I manage my equipment very well. I don't get caught up in bass drops, but that's the main problem here. Bass drops.

So I don't know why you think I wasn't doing the best I can. It's mainly just that I wanted some advice on said situation and it seems to me I just need better speakers. After all ,these aren't that great anyway, but they were in my budget range.
 
hmm... i wasn't implying "you aren't doing the best you can." ... i am merely suggesting your level of persuasion is minimal.

i understand you are doing everything to your best ability. but the biggest part about being an engineer is learning the art of persuasion. you should be able to sell them a bucket of water in the pouring rain.

it seems to me that you are adhering entirely to their suggestion... example: "this part is a break down, therefore requires subdrop/effect."

how it should be: track music with recording engineer/give you mixing assets/you mix the song.

maybe you do need a new pair or reference monitors. but your ability to compensate for lower frequency content and use PAZ visuals while training your ear in the mixing stage will dominate any opinion of any talent that walks in your studio.

all that said... i'm sure you are doing everything you can to provide quality mixes for a reasonable price but what you should be doing (from what it looks like) is sharpening your communication skills. in the long run, this has nothing to do with subdrops or adequate equipment; it pertains to owning your studio and making mix decisions that the talent will not argue with... thus, take it or leave it.
 
Totally understand you there. They do tend to walk all over me. Lately, I have been putting my foot down. I'm like "Listen, you came to me because I'm good at what I do, so let me do what I have to do." They were silent and just listened to me for the rest of the day haha. It was pretty awesome. I just don't wanna come off dickish and lose business. But I think that is my main problem. I'm bad at taking control.
 
Totally understand you there. They do tend to walk all over me. Lately, I have been putting my foot down. I'm like "Listen, you came to me because I'm good at what I do, so let me do what I have to do." They were silent and just listened to me for the rest of the day haha. It was pretty awesome. I just don't wanna come off dickish and lose business. But I think that is my main problem. I'm bad at taking control.

HAHA :D Nice dude!