Over-Production

[Whammywon]

I was recently talking with a friend and we were discussing a mix that a local engineer had done and he referred to it as being over produced, but when I listened to it I though it was an ok mix.

So out of curiosity, what is everyone's idea of over production? How much is too much?

 

[Erkan]

Uh... a production is a production... how can you over produce anything?

 

[TheDriller]

its a flaky term, but when someone says "over produced" first thing that comes into my head is something that has been edited to shreds and over-polished, to the point where the original intensity and feeling have been lost.

consider an album like "Casus Luciferi" by Watain, a mighty fine production that suits the music perfectly. if it had been mixed in the style of say, "Genesis" by Job For A Cowboy then it would have been "over produced".

 

[Keregioz]

I'm guessing "over-producing" is when you make bad/average musicians sound really good by editing the shit out of their playing/performance.
I'm not totally against it personally, depends on the result and the band. Hell, I even kinda over-produce myself sometimes .

 

[Whammywon]

Well the song he was referring to was of his old band so I dont think he was talking about making crappy musicians sound good.

 

[Jind]

I've often heard people say that Lamb of God's "Sacrament" album is "over-produced - I've even read comments by members of LOG say that. What it means? Who knows, but I guess like most things it is a very subjective term.

 

[Whammywon]

I've often heard people say that Lamb of God's "Sacrament" album is "over-produced - I've even read comments by members of LOG say that. What it means? Who knows, but I guess like most things it is a very subjective term.

I'm thinking I'm going to agree with you on that.

 

[The-Zeronaut]

JUST ONE WORD :

DRAGONFORCE

(and i really like the band)

i think "overproduced" its an album edited/autotuned/quantized/etc so much that has nothing to do with the band in a live concert

 

[Fox Mulder]

I think most of the new albums that come out these days are overproduced, including DragonForce and some of the last Behemoth albums. Faceless is no exception either.
C'mon people, if you wanna sound good do what Colin did in "The Blackening".

 

[Erik Monsonis]

Some over produced albums: Arch Enemy's Doomsday Machine, Trivium's Shogun, Meshuggah's obZen, Nevermore's TGE.... Any album that sounds AMAZING and really polished, with perfect taste on everything is often called an "over produced" album. I absolutely hate when people says that, I mean, it's our job as AE to make things sound the best possible, no matter how...

Big amounts of auto-tune = overproduction
Awesome sounding drums (thanks to triggered samples) = overproduction
Lots of vocal layers and arrangements = overproduction
Loud master with everything well set up = overproduction

I guess you get the idea

 

[Erik Monsonis]

I should say people says everything Andy Sneap and Colin Richardson mixes is overproduced, to abbreviate. Fuck that, they're simply awesome, there's no argument.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Some over produced albums: Trivium's Shogun

What?

Any album that sounds AMAZING and really polished, with perfect taste on everything is often called an "over produced" album.

True, I've noticed that.

Awesome sounding drums (thanks to triggered samples) = overproduction

I'm one of those who'd call that overproduction. It's really subjective, you know. Some people can't crave enough for naturalness.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I'm guessing "over-producing" is when you make bad/average musicians sound really good by editing the shit out of their playing/performance.

Hell yeh.

 

[Aaron Smith]

I hardly would call "Doomsday Machine" or "This Godless Endeavor" overproduced. I've always thought that the term refers more to excessive layering of parts, too many vocal harmonies, and extra synths and atmosphere added that won't be reproduced live, etc. I guess I mean, more about the performances being overdone more so than the mix techniques. I know the line between performance and mix technique can be kind of blurry, but I would say that if a recording is built up so much that the band no longer sounds similar in concert or at rehearsal, then it has been overproduced. Nevermore and Arch Enemy don't really fall into that category at all in my opinion. Sure, they may be technically be overproduced a bit, but not to the extent that the songs don't feel the same in a performance setting.

I agree that it's a very subjective term though, so I suppose that there really is no right or wrong answer.

 

[egan.]

I've heard my band's records referred to as overproduced which I honestly take as a compliment.
To me that term refers to records where the producer takes such a heavy handed roll in the song writing and makes things so slick that the bands doesn't sound like the same band anymore. Still, it's only really over-production when the result is a bad record.

 

[Nebulous]

I hardly would call "Doomsday Machine" or "This Godless Endeavor" overproduced. I've always thought that the term refers more to excessive layering of parts, too many vocal harmonies, and extra synths and atmosphere added that won't be reproduced live, etc. I guess I mean, more about the performances being overdone more so than the mix techniques. I know the line between performance and mix technique can be kind of blurry, but I would say that if a recording is built up so much that the band no longer sounds similar in concert or at rehearsal, then it has been overproduced. Nevermore and Arch Enemy don't really fall into that category at all in my opinion. Sure, they may be technically be overproduced a bit, but not to the extent that the songs don't feel the same in a performance setting.

I agree that it's a very subjective term though, so I suppose that there really is no right or wrong answer.

I most agree with Aaron out of any of the comments already made.
I think the only band/ album that comes to mind as being over produced with that mindset would be the last two Blind Guardian albums. Still good albums, but definately not what you get when you see them live.

 

[dill_the_devil]

Chinese Democracy.

To me, that's the textbook definition of an overproduced album. Something that, sonically speaking, sounds absolutely pristine - the mix is glistening, polished and spit-shined, bu that exceptional sonic treatment can't hide the fact that the music underneath is soulless and forgettable.

If you marry intense, passionate music with a quality production, you get great results. If you try to buff up passionless, forgettable music with an amazing production, no matter how sonically pristine the result is, the music is still going to be dull and lifeless.

 

[Harry Hughes]

This I agree with "I'm guessing "over-producing" is when you make bad/average musicians sound really good by editing the shit out of their playing/performance.".

But since as was said, the OP was not really talking about that, I think the concept of "over production" is a crock of shit, seriously.
It's in the same fucking stupid league as the word "pure/purity".
I was talking with some guy on msn yesterday and I was talking about how I was starting to get a real interest in audio engineering/production and I said "Once you start learning about this stuff, you truly appreciate the sheer talent and hard work that goes into an amazing production". We were on the topic on Paramore as well, so I mentioned the album Riot! as being an example of really gorgeous production.
But his reply was "That's all bullshit, music should be fucking pure" and then all the crap about how it should be done live and all that total shit. He clearly had no idea what the fuck he was talking about.
What exactly is "pure"? Because I'd really like to fucking know, because as far as I'm concerned just like "over production" it's a bullshit term used by people who have no idea what the fuck they are talking about.
Let's take a live performance.
Is the music still "pure" by the time the guitar/bass cabinets and drums are mic'd up and the audience is hearing it all via the PA system/monitoring systems?
You know, maybe that just isn't pure enough.
It's only pure if you can only hear the backline by itself.
Oh no, wait, that's not fucking pure enough, the guitars are being amplified by electricity, the band should be playing unplugged so you get the "troo" tone of the wood and the fingers on the strings as they play. uke:
See what I mean, it goes around in this big, stupid fucking circle.
I then explained to him what a load of bullshit the concept of "pure" is.
You walk into a studio with this concept of "pure" and try to argue with the producer/engineers that your approach of "pure" is correct and surprise surprise, the end result is gonna sound like garbage, purely (no pun intended) because you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

So basically, I get around this problem by not worrying about "over production" nor "pure/purity" and just going for what should be the proper end point, which is SOUND GOOD. Obviously someone like Andy Sneap has that approach, he wants his shit to sound good.
If it means quad tracking (which is hardly realistic in the sense of real world performances where you might only have one or 2 guitarists) to sound good, then so be it.
If It means having a guitarist punch in his shit again because he screwed up during his first performance during tracking, then so be it.

As long as it sounds good, why argue about trivial bullshit like "over production" or "purity"?.

 

[AshesOfTheWake]

As far as metal music goes, there needs to be some kind of line. It needs to have some type of raw feel that the live band does. But, a band like Dragonforce would obviously not want to release an album that sounds anything close to how they do live. Lamb of God's "Sacrament" album is defiantly overproduced. If you can get a hold of "Sacrament Producer Edition" listen to all the FX.mp3 files. There is so much extra synth, that you wouldn't hear live, it's not even funny. Unless you trying to appeal to more mainstream audiences, if you don't have a keyboard on stage, best not on the album.

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

Agreed with AshesofTheWake,

I saw LoG this summer and they did rock, but the intro of the album wasn't played by them... it was being played from the CD even the drums, etc everything... seriously wtf?

And about overproduced, I never had the need to call that to any album, but there sure are albums that don't reflect AT ALL the band's skill or performance... which is annoying when you listen to an album and you're thinking that it fucking rocks your balls and then you see them live and you have a shitty vocalist, shitty solos, miss hits here and there : \ it's quite disappointing