Pay To Play

[Valofvalhalla]

I've been meaning to discuss this topic for a while, but I really wasn't sure how to word this. I am just curious and would like your opinion on this subject:

PAY TO PLAY...........for the most part, most unsigned bands in California have to pay to play at local venues such as the Whiskey, The Strand etc. There are a FEW exceptions. My fiance's band got in touch with the head of the Milwaukee Metalfest and was told that in order to play, they had to sell $400.00 worth of tickets. (Two years ago, they paid to be seen. It was a sucess for them because they sold c.d.s.) When you play this type of show, you aren't allowed to use your own equipment and the sets are for only 20 minutes. One would think that if you pay to play you should be able to use your own equipment and at least get a 30-45 minute set to showcase your band.

Even today, the college radio stations aren't playing thrash/speed metal like they were a year ago.

I thought about managing. Now I've gotten a first hand look at the music industry and what it takes to get a band off the ground. Promised return phone calls never get returned and promises are never met. It's just frustrating and takes a ton of patience.

HOW DOES AN USIGNED BAND MAKE IT IN THE BUSINESS NOW? Your tips and leads would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks for your time.

 

[testacat]

hmmm it's interesting..
in Turkey, usually pays to the bands for their shows
ur bands pay for their shows?
I don't really understand..
and that equipment situation..
it seems like a double-standart!!
that's INJUSTICE!!

but I don't wonder that the college stations don't play speed-thrash etc..
well, do they play death, black etc..
I don't think so.
so, where's the freedom?

 

[Heretic _Princess]

My boyfriend's bands had to pay 1000$CAN to play at Milwaukee MetalFest last year. Its fucking not worth driving 18 hours for a 4 song set and not using your own equipment..It sucks!

 

[Voice of God]

Sounds weird to me. I haven't heard of anything like "pay to play" here, if you've a unsigned band, there's small clubs that might take them to play if they're good enough and pay them something for playing, and then some people arrange things, like rent a club, get small bands to play there (usually free or the band gets food+gas money or something) and charge something for tickets so that they cover the cost of the club. The tickets are usually cheap enough, so that some people will gather there to have a few (and a few more...) beers and listen to live bands. Of course the bands have to have something to show that they're good (demos etc.)....

 

[xenophobe]

A common practice I thought died in the ninties...

A few of the local clubs around here USED to do that, the Omni, the Stone, etc...

But they died...

The one little place that closed in SJ, the Cactus Club didn't charge, but didn't really pay either.

I'm not sure about the Pound in SF...

The Metalfest has always been Pay to Play as far as I know.

 

[Metal4Mom]

The practice of PAY TO PLAY is still alive in So California. Most clubs (Whiskey, Key Club, etc) make the opening bands purchase tickets to get on the bill. The actual amount required varies from $300-$1000. If the local bands are successful at selling all the tickets, no problem. However, if they can't sell all the tickets, the band still has to pay the club for ALL the tickets. Sometimes the bands must sell an additional number of tickets to secure a good opening time slot (or play to an empty club!). Bands do use their own equipment in the local clubs, but must go on without a sound check! Less well-known bars usually pay the bands to play after they have demonstrated that they can draw paying (drinking) customers. Tribute Bands usually qualify first.

The big festivals (like November to Dismember) are the worst, since bands must pay and not be allowed to use their own drums or amps as well! I know some bands at November to Dismember paid $1000 to play, were limited to using a common backline AND band members had to pay again to actually get in themselves. The bands paying were more likely to actually get to play, however. The actual well known bands had their sets cut out or reduced to almost nothing. Testament only got 12 minutes to play. They were the only actual headliners to play, all others got cut or cancelled themselves.

I felt like it was so disrespectful to seasoned bands (like Testament) and a real rip-off for the fans.


How can a show like this ever be compared to the ultimate show - Thrash of The Titans - where every band had a full set and the fans were able to see all the bands promised on the bill!

 

[Valofvalhalla]

Originally posted by Heretic _Princess
My boyfriend's bands had to pay 1000$CAN to play at Milwaukee MetalFest last year. Its fucking not worth driving 18 hours for a 4 song set and not using your own equipment..It sucks!

I hear that! These metal festivals rake it in don't they? Fuckers! Trav decided not to attend that show. San Bernadino had November to Dismember, it wasn't as expensive and local too!

 

[Valofvalhalla]

Originally posted by xenophobe
A common practice I thought died in the ninties...


I'm not sure about the Pound in SF...

C.O.L. will be playing at the Black Church in Kimos, SF on 8/30.

We did find small clubs in No.&So. Dakato and Minn., MN to play some free shows. Just takes a lot of hard work and listening to all the old clubs bullshit. Like you said, most of them ARE out of business and have gone COUNTRY!

 

[Valofvalhalla]

Originally posted by Metal4Mom
The big festivals (like November to Dismember) are the worst,

That just about sums it up! I remember following the mngr around trying to find out what time COL was suppose to go on. It was a real three ring circus!

 

[Valofvalhalla]

Originally posted by Voice of God
Sounds weird to me. ...

It not only sounds weird, it is. Been doing the local club scenes.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Valofvalhalla]

Originally posted by testacat
so, where's the freedom?

One isn't even free here in America!

 

[xenophobe]

Originally posted by Valofvalhalla

Originally posted by xenophobe
A common practice I thought died in the ninties...


I'm not sure about the Pound in SF...

C.O.L. will be playing at the Black Church in Kimos, SF on 8/30.

We did find small clubs in No.&So. Dakato and Minn., MN to play some free shows. Just takes a lot of hard work and listening to all the old clubs bullshit. Like you said, most of them ARE out of business and have gone COUNTRY!

That sure puts a damper on non-local bands trying to establish new territory.

Still a few places around that don't make you pay to play....

Anyone know the status of:

CW Saloon SF
Lindy's Concord
Pine Street Livermore

Free places to play:

Viva's (Monterey)
Ocean Thunder (Monterey)
Gaslight Theater (Campbell and Gilroy)

 

[Shreddrb]

The band I just joined a few months ago, has a story similar to the one Heretic Princess is talking about, last year they paid a ridiculous sum of money to drive to Milwaukee from Canada (18 hours to be exact) to play the Metalfest.
Barrymore's the biggest and most popular club venue in Ottawa Canada, have alot of "hidden" rules to play there. You have to pay something like $300 CDN just to get booked, and during the night you play there, if they don't meet a certain amount of bar sales that night, you have to compensate them for it.
Apparently there are alot of places like that.
You just have to do what you feel is right and worthwhile. We get endless email from promoters wanting us to play shows for next to nothing. If any band played every gig offered where they had to pay out of their pockets in some way or another, they'd lose their homes from going broke!

 

[Valofvalhalla]

And that's exactly why COL decided not to play Milwaukee this year! It's just not worth it!

 

[WinterSolstice]

I remember reading something n how Iced Earth's Jon Schaffer absoutely refuses to play Milwaukee again. They only played once and that, apparantly, was all he was about to take. He kept ranting and raving about how unbelieveably disorganized and embarassing the ordeal was and the ridiculus sum of money to play a small set with not-so-efficient equipment.

I wonder what'll happen with the Metalfest here in Flroida (I can't believe it, either!) next spring.

- Winter

 

[Valofvalhalla]

Well, whomever the promoter is for Metalfest (can't remember the guys name) is making $$$$$. Look at Ozzfest for example, how do you get a band on that bill? Now THAT would be worth the work that had to be done to get to that level........

 

[Jono]

There's a local club around here called Fitzgeralds. They do the pay for play, but if you get so many people to come you get your money back. And if you get enough they'll do a live recording of the show for you. I think you have to get 20 to get your money back. And then I think they pay you so much if you get basically a packed show. Pro-Pain played there and I don't even know if they got the twenty. Armored saint also played there, they had a good turn out though. I'm pretty sure they make money from cd sells and t-shirt sales at those type of venues.

With radio stations, most are owned by the Clear Channel conglommerate. And what they do is a nation wide study with surveys and all kinds of shit to find out what people want to hear. And thats all they play. Which is why alot of the bands will make a song that is nothing like the rest of their music to get it on the radio. It's deffinately a fucking monopoly. So I guess the only way to fix that is to vote socialist
-Jono-

 

[Valofvalhalla]

Originally posted by Jono
There's a local club around-

Too bad there aren't any like that here locally. For the most part, even if you don't sell your share of tix given to you by the club, it has to come outta the member's own pocket. I guess if you want something bad enough you will do anything. But as far as selling-out? NEVER!

 

[Dare Devil]

I remember Mark Briody from Jag Panzer say that is band still has to pay a few bills for their tour with Iced Earth.

 

[Valofvalhalla]

My fiance's band http://www.cessationoflife.com has played a couple of times with Testament!!!!! I'm sure that they would pay to play again with Testament if need be. Those times played with Testament, I'm told were a couple of the greatest moments the band has had!!!!!