Phase problem with 8 drums tracks

[Norke]

hi, does anyone had this problem...
imagine you track a drum with 8 mics
when i time stretch all 8 tracks at the same time i have huuuge phase problem.
what you guys do for that ? besides cutting each snare and just time stretch the overheads
This phase problem is related to a bad mic placement.

btw im with cubase 4, ill soon have cubase studio 5

 

[egan.]

I'm not sure I understand the question. Why are you time stretching your drum tracks?

 

[crazykarl]

Does it look like bad phase or is it bad phase? If it sounds decent, don't worry about it. If it's bad, you can use plugins that rotate the phase. If the phase problem is between the overheads and the close mics, you'll have problems. If it's between the close mics, you could probably fix this through gating.

 

[egan.]

Hey Karl, note that he's talking about time stretching multiple tracks and not just about the phase relationship between the original mics.

 

[HandsOfDespair]

If you timestretch your tracks you'll surely have problems, don't timetretch them. I did it at first when I was mixing my first band, and I started to have a pan problem, the snare was moving from left to right without any automation.

 

[Norke]

yeah HandsOfDespair, it hapened to me once.
i'll try to re-explain sorry im french btw.

8 mics on drums, so 8 separated tracks.
so imagine the drummer isn't tight
i time stretch some parts to tight all 8 tracks to the click
so on one track its okay, theres not so much phase problem but with all 8 tracks if i timestretch 2:00 to 2:05 ( wheres its not tight ) to 2:00 to 2:06 that should be tight but with 8 tracks it makes some crazy phase problem as handsofdespair said. its not a steady phase problem, its like if all 8 mics were moving around, or if like i automated some different delai on each track.

im on cubase btw

so the solution i found is:
i strip silence all snares and kick and toms, so that way theres only 4 overhead tracks to be time stretched... its not really solid, anyways.. how you tight drums only with mics ?....:zombie:?

 

[greyskull]

time stretching does that.
this is why beat detective is still the best way to fix things.

 

[Norke]

yeah but theres no beat detective on cubase...

 

[colonel kurtz]

yeah HandsOfDespair, it hapened to me once.
i'll try to re-explain sorry im french btw.

8 mics on drums, so 8 separated tracks.
so imagine the drummer isn't tight
i time stretch some parts to tight all 8 tracks to the click
so on one track its okay, theres not so much phase problem but with all 8 tracks if i timestretch 2:00 to 2:05 ( wheres its not tight ) to 2:00 to 2:06 that should be tight but with 8 tracks it makes some crazy phase problem as handsofdespair said. its not a steady phase problem, its like if all 8 mics were moving around, or if like i automated some different delai on each track.

im on cubase btw

so the solution i found is:
i strip silence all snares and kick and toms, so that way theres only 4 overhead tracks to be time stretched... its not really solid, anyways.. how you tight drums only with mics ?....:zombie:?

well i can tell you right now, if you're going to stretch or compress something a full second, or even close to it, you're going to end up with nasty artifacts, really no matter what

those tools are best used to stretch parts in ranges of milliseconds...

 

[HandsOfDespair]

yeah but theres no beat detective on cubase...

Sérieusement éditer du drum dans cubase ca va vrmmm mal haha, cest vrm long comparé a dans Pro Tools ou Logic. La seule maniere jai trouvé ressemble a ca : http://www.clubcubasenashville.com/PAGES/TIPS_&_TRICKS.htm . En gros, tu groupes tes tracks de drum, tu fais des cut ds la piste groupe ( pas ds les track), en faisant ta cut ds ta piste groupe ca fait la cut dans toute tes tracks...Faut que tu fasses tes cut a chaque transient de kick pis de snare ( toms aussi si c vrm pas tight pis ta le courage), un coup que toute tes tracks de drum sont cutté aux transients, tu sélectionnes tous les segments pis tu peses sur ''Q'' sur ton clavier pour que ca quantize, pis apres tu crossfades toute...

C la seule maniere jai trouvé dans cubase...Dans pro tools, drette en partant ta une fonction ''tab to transient'' qui fait que ta juste a peser sur "tab'' pis ton curseur se deplace au prochain transient...Pis t'a aussi elastic audio pis beat detective...C'est pas mal la seule raison pourquoi jme suis pogné pro tools m-powered.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Just group all of the drum tracks, and then separate at each kick/snare/tom hit and align the separated regions to the grid. Use crossfades to smooth out the gaps between the regions.

This method takes awhile, but it doesn't affect the original phase relationship of the mics and sounds natural if done correctly.

 

[Norke]

okay but if the snare bleed on overheads is not EXACTLY with the snare track cutted to the grid it will make some other strange differences right ?

 

[Mikaël-ange]

okay but if the snare bleed on overheads is not EXACTLY with the snare track cutted to the grid it will make some other strange differences right ?

C'est cela
Par contre il faut que tu te base sur la piste de CC pour les decoupes/replacement sur la grille.

Coupe tes pistes de CC/Toms/OH d'un coup, aligne puis cross fade
La piste de GC doit etre recallé à part...

 

[ahjteam]

écrire en anglais, s'il vous plait

 

[ahjteam]

yeah but theres no beat detective on cubase...

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/8183696-post105.html

 

[HandsOfDespair]

écrire en anglais, s'il vous plait

Writing in english was so much easier

And I just explained in a couple of words the technique on the nashville club page.

 

[HandsOfDespair]

C'est cela
Par contre il faut que tu te base sur la piste de CC pour les decoupes/replacement sur la grille.

Coupe tes pistes de CC/Toms/OH d'un coup, aligne puis cross fade
La piste de GC doit etre recallé à part...

If there is kick drum bleed in the other tracks I think you should still move the 8 tracks together, because otherwise you would hear random kick sounds or phase problems

 

[Morgan C]

I use AudioSnap with 'Elastic Audio' for all my drum editing. I personally find it superior to cut/crossfading.

Not sure how the one in Cubase works, but you have to make sure the phase relationships between tracks stay while stretching. In Sonar, I create a 'master' track of the snare and kick and tom close mics, use that to get the transients, then apply those transients to the other tracks. They don't land directly ON the zero crossing for that track necessarily, but that doesn't matter.

 

[Mikaël-ange]

écrire en anglais, s'il vous plait

Yes I know but sometimes Lasse wrote in is native language on this board