Production overkill. Is it worth it?

[burst]

So I've recently stumbled into this article about recording process of glam-rockers The Darkness. That record was produced by Roy Thomas Baker, the man behind Bohemian Rhapsody. Here's the article:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb06/articles/baker.htm

It's quite long a read, but the main point is that the production was FUCKING HUGE in terms of channel count and amount of gear and space used. Up to about 50-60 channels for drums. Up to 160 guitars parts on most songs. Up to 10 vocal harmonies and 160 vocal overdubs on a song. INSANE.

So the question is, do you think it was worth it in the end?

 

[crillemannen]

Bob Rock and Randy Staub did a similar thing on Metallicas Black album and. Take a listen and question yourself if it is worth it

 

[~BURNY~]

If the songs called for it (I think they did) and they could do it, I don't see what the problem. Not necessarily into this faux glam rock music but I think it sounds great production wise.

 

[burst]

No doubt about that, but Black Album in '91 was more impressive than this in '04

For some reason, I think that Randy Staub could do this album faster, easier and for less money.

It's just hard to imagine that at some point they said "Hey, let's put some more mics on drums, 40 is just NOT CUTTING IT"

 

[Ermz]

I think at a certain point it gets a bit self-indulgent. You gotta know when to call it a day... on some level you have to know most people are listening to the album for the music, rather than the way it's presented. Do what's necessary, get it sounding as slick as you can, but stay realistic and consider that maybe 4 rooms mics can still do the job of 20, if mixed right.

 

[Lon]

no

 

[midget donkeys]

Not worth it at all in this case. I enjoyed Permission to Land, but was very disapointed by their second cd.

Emrz is right. It is all about the songs. It doesn't matter how great the production is if the listener doesn't like the songs.

I would rather listen to great songs made with a drum machine and a pod than songs I don't like produced to perfection.

 

[Headof75]

To me this record is just trying to sound like vintage AC/DC only with Hawkins vocals.

So



24 track tape or 1000 track daw?

 

[MindMunch]

No.
If it was something like Blind Guardian I could imagine going berserker on the track count, but for this cowbell glam rock... I don´t see the point and I don´t think it sounds better (judging by the videoclip). Cool penguim suit, though.

 

[Jevil]

No.
If it was something like Blind Guardian I could imagine going berserker on the track count, but for this cowbell glam rock... I don´t see the point and I don´t think it sounds better (judging by the videoclip). Cool penguim suit, though.

Totally agree.
And this kind of rock must be kinda vintage: long takes, no tight edition, tape recording... just them, they're instruments and rock n' roll!

 

[egan.]

Big track counts are as much about decision postponement as they are about production. There may be 150 tracks but that doesn't mean that 100 of them aren't muted in the final mix.

 

[CubanDude]

The Darkness was awesome... Also dig the production, but don't think the effort/sound ratio is that good.

 

[schwinginbatman]

No.
If it was something like Blind Guardian I could imagine going berserker on the track count, but for this cowbell glam rock... I don´t see the point and I don´t think it sounds better (judging by the videoclip). Cool penguim suit, though.

Yeah, because for stuff like theirs I could see the point. Big, operatic, and epic. This sounds good, don't get me wrong, but it could have been done on half as many tracks.

 

[Melb_shredder]

Wow... Just wow. Read that whole article. The production on that album is great no doubt. For all the dickery, I don't think it was worth it. Gonna have to +1 ermz on this. 160 guitar takes because of different guitars for 1 song. Yeah, that just takes a leap over the self indulgent line in my opinion

 

[CubanDude]

It's actually quite interesting, that he does most of his commitments already in the recording process and not later on when he's mixing. guess that's the biggest difference between "old-school" producers and those who grew up with pro tools.

and: i'm wondering how fking furious this guy must become, when he sees these songs uploaded on youtube in 240p.

 

[RevoltStudios]

Utterly stupid to me. I float in old school world. I mix on a console to tape mostly, even with metal stuff. Just sum the freakin guitars down or something...make a commitment to a sound already. I would not accept a project this big to mix without my intern spending weeks getting it down to under 50 tracks. Guarantee the delete key would be hit many many times.

 

[AStudio]

That record cost 1 million pounds to make. I couldn't help but think the producer was thinking $$$ when he was messing around micing up guitar cabs in the cow fields and car parks lol. Plus at that stage the band was pretty messed up i do believe. So im sure he was happy to indulge in there request's and take the money.

He kind of came across in the interview that the process used made the album was superior than using more conventional methods. I totally disagree, the same producer could have recorded that album for 30K and made it sound great also, you dont need 1000 tracks. Plus who the hell wants to mix that much. Not to mention its complete bullshit that he had that many tracks. Its just not gonna happen at all, i very much doubt that he mixed sessions ALL on the desks with that many tracks (even summing stems in pro tools).

 

[Ermz]

I would not accept a project this big to mix without my intern spending weeks getting it down to under 50 tracks. Guarantee the delete key would be hit many many times.

I'm the same frame of mind, generally. Hate being sent a plethora of needless tracks that should've been printed together. I'll generally run through a project before mixing and bus/print everything that I possibly can. Having to work through over 140 tracks (that's generally my ceiling for the prog/power stuff, but I hit it often) just isn't cool for the right brain... you start to stress and stop being creative.

 

[Arsenu,]

the more you have to deal with technical stuff the less creative you get

that bieng said the Black album was and still is the best sounding album ever recorded

 

[Arsenu,]

after thinking about it a bit, i think you're asking the wrong question.
as an audio engineer, your goal is always making any record as good as possible, and albums like Metallica's and The Darkness are obviously as good as possible.

so it might be wiser to ask if it's NECESSARY to reach these track counts and so on... because if making an album like that requires a huge track-count, hell! i'll use a thousand tracks...