Production ?

[Bryant]

What is production ? Why is it important ? Why do some care and others do not ?


I think a producer is an extra member of the band. If a band wants to sound professional, the sound needs to be right, and a quality producer is essential. However, before I get into production, I want to know what other people think about it.


Bryant

 

[Wyvern]

I seldom complaint about production except for the volume of the sound in the album. I see a lot of people crying for production and/or discussing that old production was better or that new production is better, blah, blah, blah.

I only care that the music appeals to me and that the sound is not too low. I take for granted that all instruments and vocals are properly equalized, if not and that is part of production then yes I complaint about an imbalance too.

 

[J-Dubya 777]

Production is important in capturing a bands sound on tape/digital. Too little, and you sound like the next garage band, too much, and it'll be too perfect, too tweaked, and you'll never pull it off live!

I like what my ears consider "decent" production. I first look for a decent balance, and then guitar tone. I hate paying for a cd that sounds like it was recorded on a boom box. Neat,clean,& sanitized isn't my cup of tea either. If it's a band I REALLY like, they better be able to pull it off live!

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

I'm one picky son-of-a-bitch when it comes to production. Probably one of the worst you'll ever meet. Ask any of my personal friends! I occasionally let a really great album go based on shitty production.

I listen to music to FEEL the music, that's why I don't like headphones and feel cheated if I don't have a sub-woofer barking. The separation of the instruments is critical for me. I hate muddy-sounding albums. The bass drum must be produced enough for it to really kick on the sub-woofer and not just blend in with the bass guitar. The highs are really important to me as well, if I can't hear the hi-hat tinkling, I'm looking for a different album. I just can't listen to those old 60s recordings (beatles, stones, hendrix, doors) where it sounds like it was recorded inside a sock.

Production = EVERYTHING for me, ever since I bought my first full blown stereo system. The only thing more important is the SONGWRITING, but one can't gain a Gold Pedestal in my Hallowed Hall of Fame without the other.

 

[poundingmetal74]

I'm one picky son-of-a-bitch when it comes to production.

You and me both, buddy. Production is very important to me, and has prevented me from listening to quite a few bands I might otherwise enjoy. Albums that sound like shit always means it takes longer to delve in and appreciate the music, because my ears are going "What the fuck?" during playback. St. Anger being a prime example.

Essentially, Bryant, production means "how does it sound, and what are the elements in making a CD sound that way?" (or if it's a movie, how does it sound and look). I'm very particular on how I like certain things to sound, such as snares (just ask my drummer, I'm a picky son of a bitch - I like the "Empire" type of snare). I'm also very big on guitar tones, I prefer the ball-dropping heavy, yet not overly distorted (ie. Through the Mirror or Dream Evil). Bass, I really enjoy the tone on Slave to the Grind - that low-mid growl (my bass player has this tone to a "T")

Some productions that I consider the "best of the best" include:
Queensryche - Empire (drums - also throw in Fates Warning Parallels, as it was also done by Jimbo Barton))
Dream Evil - anything (guitar)
Metallica - Black (everything)
Skid Row - Slave to the Grind (everything)
Fozzy - first 2 CDs (drums)
Final Stage - Through the Mirror (not to toot my own horn - bass in particular)
Siam - Prayer
Symphony X - Paradise Lost
Judas Priest - Painkiller
........I could go on and on, but these give a good representation of how I like discs to sound.

For me to enjoy a production, it's got to sound BIG, be well recorded, have the proper tones and a well balanced mix.

If the record has all that, it makes the songs that much easier to listen to and enjoy. Think of a movie or TV show from the 60s, if it looks like shit, it makes watching it much more difficult than if it looks like the Dark Knight.

 

[sixxswine]

The drum sound that Bob Rock got on MC '94 is one of the best I have heard what a great reference for other bands. Tone means a lot listen to the classic ZZ Top albums and Stevie Ray Vaughan albums. Fuck! They kill.
Don't get me started on production...it's very important!!!!!

 

[poundingmetal74]

The drum sound that Bob Rock got on MC '94 is one of the best I have heard

Well, yeah, that's essentially the Black Album production (the drums are damn near the same in terms of tone, as well as the guitars). MC94 was a great album musically as well - I prefer that to most Motley discs (even thought it wasn't really "Motley".

 

[baldyboy]

this is quite a tricky one...bryant,you are talking about a producer,and also about production,they arnt necessarily related..
a producer might come in and og through the bands songs,maybe ask the band to try different arrangements of those songs,add or remove sections of songs to make them longer/shorter...
he might also recommend different instruments for song parts,adding samples,different vocal melodies etc etc...

balance and tone can happen a lot in the recording/tracking stage,but more often these days it happens in the mixing stage...re amping particularly has become popular-this is where great mixers such as andy sneap come into thier own...

further on,the volume level that the cd has usuallly ets sorted out in the mastering process at the end,when the disc is usually given to someone else to master...the eq of the tracks can change then,as can the volume overall...

so like i say a producer,and production,dont always necessarily go together in everything!

 

[Corrupted Innocence]

lol... I'm not entirely too picky like Ryan[TSO]... I mean, I think some of those old Symphonic Black Metal albums kick ass, even though the production is shot. It varies for me, I suppose, depending on my mood and the style of music being played.

 

[sixxswine]

Well, yeah, that's essentially the Black Album production (the drums are damn near the same in terms of tone, as well as the guitars). MC94 was a great album musically as well - I prefer that to most Motley discs (even thought it wasn't really "Motley".

great sonnically good albums...
Great vocals on both of those albums too...

 

[DarkOne]

Some productions that I consider the "best of the best" include:
Queensryche - Empire (drums - also throw in Fates Warning Parallels, as it was also done by Jimbo Barton))
Dream Evil - anything (guitar)
Metallica - Black (everything)
Skid Row - Slave to the Grind (everything)
Fozzy - first 2 CDs (drums)
Final Stage - Through the Mirror (not to toot my own horn - bass in particular)
Siam - Prayer
Symphony X - Paradise Lost
Judas Priest - Painkiller
........I could go on and on, but these give a good representation of how I like discs to sound.

Great list and nice details. For those of us who are not as into the production, can you compare with some relatively recent high profile albums on which you consider the production very poor? The one that stands out for me is Blind Guardian's Imaginations from the Other Side. I can barely hear Hansi on half of the songs.

Steve in Philly

 

[SickBoy]

Queensryche - Empire (drums - also throw in Fates Warning Parallels, as it was also done by Jimbo Barton))

Glad you mentioned Parallels, an awesome album in just every aspect!

Skid Row - Slave to the Grind (everything)

Oh yeah!
Bolan's bass tone is sick there, care to share the recipe?
And the guitars are really heavy and in-your-face... Sounds like ADA MP1, but I may be wrong...

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

The one that stands out for me is Blind Guardian's Imaginations from the Other Side. I can barely hear Hansi on half of the songs.

There's a prime example of a great modern band that I can't listen to. I've had three Blind Guardian albums, and I never heard any of them more than two or three times because I couldn't get past the shitty production. That and Hansi's voice sounds like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.

 

[Wyvern]

Blind Guardian albums sound fine to me, and IFTOS is my fave one.

 

[poundingmetal74]

can you compare with some relatively recent high profile albums on which you consider the production very poor? The one that stands out for me is Blind Guardian's Imaginations from the Other Side.

Dragonwyck is one example that immediately jumps out at me (great album, but the production is awful - albeit it was an indie release).
A few others:
Eternal Flight - new album. (Drums in particular - but overall not a punchy production).
Iron Maiden - 2006 album. I forget the title of their latest, but considering how famous they are, the production was incredibly weak.
Judas Priest - Nost. - Again, a very weak production. Nothing is punchy and the sonics as a whole are lacking. Put this on back-to-back against Painkiller and you'll hear what I mean.
Savatage - most of their work had shitty production (hall of the mountain king and streets come to mind). Their drum sound, for the most part, has been sub-par for such an acclaimed band.

Also, I completely forgot to mention Dennis Ward in my list of favorites, but his productions are second to none (especially his drum sound). Listen to the drums on Endangered or Electrified by PC69 - utterly stunning!

SickBoy:
The Parallels production essentially was the Empire production (drums and guitar tone were the same - and yes, both are frigging brilliant albums).
Bolan used a Spector bass on that record, but I'm not sure what amp he used. Needless to say, that was a bitchin' bass tone. As were the guitars on STTG. I often use "The Threat" to test systems / headphones / whatever to hear how they cope and how they sound.

 

[ElectricWiz]

I'm only being mildly humorous when I say that the single greatest production feat in modern times is the drum sound on Led Zepellin IV. They are huge, and the cymbals ring out for about a half an hour on each hit. Part of this is Bonham, but part is recording technique too.

Also, as a good example of good/bad production or mixing, I'd reference Nevermore's Enemies of Reality. The original version was muddy and dead. Andy Sneap remixed it a year or so later, and hearing it is a whole different experience!

Production definitely matters. It won't keep me from listening to an album, and it's all subjective in any case, of course. For instance, part of what makes albums like Welcome to Hell or even Mellissa great, is the subpar production job. It just adds to the atomsphere. All the Scandanavian bands have been trying for years to reproduce that bad production! Ironic, but there it is.

I'm not aware of any album I've avoided because of how it was mixed or otherwise, but I have surely mentally noted albums that would sound better if they had been handled by someone else.

Another modern example I can think of is Ghost Reveries by Opeth. A fine production job by all accounts. BUT, it lacks the utter raw, huge quality that Stephen Wilson was able achieve on Blackwater Park. That album just oozes eerieness an cool, and part of that is because of the production and mixing job.

There are a lot of factors that make a difference though. Some studios just sound like crap, for instance. That probably matters less these days, what with modern mics and techniques, but there are plenty of albums recorded in the 70s and 80s that suffer for having been recorded in a "dead" room.

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

Blind Guardian albums sound fine to me, and IFTOS is my fave one.

Coming from someone who still listens to cassettes on little earphones, I'm not surprised you didn't notice the bad production!

Savatage - most of their work had shitty production (hall of the mountain king and streets come to mind). Their drum sound, for the most part, has been sub-par for such an acclaimed band.

Hey now! You're talking about my fav band! Unfortunately I have to agree with you. I love Savatage's music over the years, but their production has always been sub-standard (thank you Mr. O'Neill who apparently can't hear well enough to know there are no cymbols crashing). I used to record my vinyl albums onto cassette using a graphic equalizer, and that worked wonders. But in the new cd age, I just have to crank the bass and treble up all the way to make it sound halfway decent.

 

[Wyvern]

Coming from someone who still listens to cassettes on little earphones, I'm not surprised you didn't notice the bad production!

The music is good and feels me with its magic therefore it fills its purpose, why should I care about production? :Smug:

And btw I also listen to the CDs on my speakers in the computer, in my room player, and in my system sound in the living room, plus also listen to the tapes you talk with such disdain in my car deck (with four neat Pionneer speakers) and guess what the music works! So to hell with production, I'm not a zealot.

 

[poundingmetal74]

I used to record my vinyl albums onto cassette using a graphic equalizer, and that worked wonders. But in the new cd age, I just have to crank the bass and treble up all the way to make it sound halfway decent.

Get a decent audio program (Sound Forge for example) and use it to create your own remasters of CDs / mp3s.

 

[Trans-Siberian Outcast]

The music is good and feels me with its magic therefore it fills its purpose, why should I care about production? :Smug:

And btw I also listen to the CDs on my speakers in the computer, in my room player, and in my system sound in the living room, plus also listen to the tapes you talk with such disdain in my car deck (with four neat Pionneer speakers) and guess what the music works! So to hell with production, I'm not a zealot.

In all those listens you never noticed the muddy mix of instruments and the lack of PUNCH from the sub-woof?

Get a decent audio program (Sound Forge for example) and use it to create your own remasters of CDs / mp3s.

I'll be looking into that next month when I get back home. My buddy, Dean, has all the great mixing programs to make that happen.