Religion answers all our questions (warning: religious debate might ensue inside)

[Lina]

Sorry to bring up such a beaten-to-death subject, BUT...

As you all probably know by now, for work I edit the transcripts of the Sunday political talk shows (Meet the Press, Face the Nation, etc). And today, EVERY SINGLE SHOW had a segment on religion that was shaped in such a way that assumed everyone believes in God and the virtues of religion. There's no such thing as a theological debate on these shows -- they think they represent opposing views by getting a rabbi and a priest to come on.

Anyway, there were many gems of lunacy, but there's one in particular that I would like to share.

A reporter (playing devil's advocate for one question) said, "People say to me, 'If there is a God, how could the tragic events of September 11 have happened?' What do you tell them?"

And the archbishop of Washington said this: "Well, I have thought long and hard about this. And what I've come up with is that God is so loving that he allows us, his children, to have free will. And God so loved bin Laden that he gave him the right to make his own decisions. And bin Laden simply chose the wrong path. But this entire event is proof that God loves us, because it shows he didn't just design robots, but that he trusts each and every one of us to make our own decisions."

Nice, huh?

Can you imagine how great life would be if the same lack of questioning that people show toward religion could be used in other aspects of life?

"Yes, professor, I did take that exam. I was just invisible that day."
"I am a divine being, and you all should send me chocolate covered cherries to show your devotion."
"No, it may feel small, but it's actually 8 inches."

*Sigh* Yeah, I know I'm preaching to the choir (pun intended), but it's fun to vent.

 

[MetalManCPA]

it goes to show you that for arguements sake, you can take ANY stance on a subject, and turn it into a debate.

Is there one shred of logic in those words? And what do these people really believe? Please, can anybody prove to me that religion isn't a cult?

Not being religious since my early teens (and I went because it was the thing to do, not because I believed in anything), I honestly can't follow the thought patterns of someone truely religious. I don't always look at things plain logically either, but those words defy meaning. It takes something and turns it into BS. The scary thing is a majority(?) of people follow some sort of this crap.

Geez Lina - you truely do know the meaning of Christmas

 

[E V I L]

And the archbishop of Washington said this: "Well, I have thought long and hard about this. And what I've come up with is that God is so loving that he allows us, his children, to have free will. And God so loved bin Laden that he gave him the right to make his own decisions. And bin Laden simply chose the wrong path. But this entire event is proof that God loves us, because it shows he didn't just design robots, but that he trusts each and every one of us to make our own decisions."

venting is fun, but me? I've lost my steam lately. I'm jagged. It seems any exertion in the negative would feel like melodromatic grandstanding. It just feels damn weird. I must be low on the evil meter. heh.

 

[Lina]

haha, yes, i'm full of the christmas spirit, metalmancpa..

and let me add that the archbishop's response was given during a roundtable discussion with rudy giuliani and laura bush -- both of whom thought his comment was beautiful. we respect these people?!

 

[E V I L]

Originally posted by Lina
haha, yes, i'm full of the christmas spirit, metalmancpa..

and let me add that the archbishop's response was given during a roundtable discussion with rudy giuliani and laura bush -- both of whom thought his comment was beautiful. we respect these people?!

Well in that case..(evil meter rising...),

I like Giules. But I'm afraid few people have that bravery about them that they're able to transcend conventions and meaningless cultural symbols. It seems Christianity and "masshood" are becoming America's exalted cup of tea. We're losing the batlle of spirits somewhere..

 

[MetalManCPA]

The movie "They Live". Unseen aliens taking over the world.

Religion is the same - I think my "sight" is better than the majority of humanity - but too many people don't see it this way. Many discussions here have used descriptions of religion as a cult, or brainwashing. For our leaders to 100% back this - that's a little scary to me.

I try to let religion take a back seat in life - or sometimes I even put it in the trunk.

 

[Claire's Horror]

"If you wish to strive for peace of soul and pleasure, then believe; if you're a devotee of truth, then inquire..." -F. Nietzsche

anyway, I've seen many truly fair and noble people pass through most terrible situations, and even one of them (and very close friend of mine) commit suicide. I don't know about what you may think, but in my opinion no compassionate father would ever allow their children to pass through such horrible tests. there might be something after we die, but if there is, I don't really think it's actually a most loving and mercyful "god". fuck deities, they're all assholes.

oh, and another quote by Nietzsche:

"What? Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?"

 

[SaintJoshy]

Do any of you guys know where the word "christmas" comes from?

 

[Wolff]

Christ's mass...

 

[Wolff]

Lina

This thread is going to take off. Damn you.
Pls edit out the (warning) in the subject at least.

 

[Lina]

oh come on, volfie, you can let me have my one thread to every 6 of yours.

 

[S4R]

Originally posted by Lina
And the archbishop of Washington said this: "Well, I have thought long and hard about this. And what I've come up with is that God is so loving that he allows us, his children, to have free will. And God so loved bin Laden that he gave him the right to make his own decisions. And bin Laden simply chose the wrong path. But this entire event is proof that God loves us, because it shows he didn't just design robots, but that he trusts each and every one of us to make our own decisions."

My scenario: "Judge, I know I have been tossing blind children into pits filled with rabid dogs for the past few years, but god provided me the will to do it...may I go now?"

Originally posted by E V I L




venting is fun, but me? I've lost my steam lately. I'm jagged. It seems any exertion in the negative would feel like melodromatic grandstanding. It just feels damn weird. I must be low on the evil meter. heh.

Yeah, shape up or ship out E V I L. ...

 

[Wolff]

Originally posted by Lina
oh come on, volfie, you can let me have my one thread to every 6 of yours.

This smily looks like Bill Clinton... the red face n' all

 

[YaYo]

i was watching a show about evolution last night, and this particular one was about christians, it had christians who believed in evolution vs. christians who didnt.

As u can guess it was extremely amusing watching both sides, especially the people who have fallen so strongly for the bible that its the only thing in the world they believe. I mean one guy was pulling out quotes such as (ok i wasnt concentrating much so i cant remember how he said it but anyway.... ) "well darwin and scientists can come up with all the evidence they like, and can do all the research they like but i just want to let them know that they are wrong", a very definitive "wrong" it was, and god it was funny, so easily just saying its wrong solely coz it disagrees with the bible (he was saying that it is wrong because it doesnt fit with genesis, that was his entire argument!). I mean its no wonder people can become so brainwashed if they are taught to dismiss arguments that dont fit in with their current beliefs (i mean really? how can anyone find any answer with that attitude, let alone find the meaning of life and god and everything!!), and to NEVER EVER consider the possibility they are wrong, what poor misguided people! It made me feel weird to look at these people and see that no matter how flawless an argument u provided was, it would be dismissed, and then to wonder if maybe im just the same in ways, i dont think i am but they dont think they are either, hm.

but hey people can believe what they want, it just makes me realise how we are only still animals with many faults and limited brain power, etc. We just happen to be the smartest on this planet, but that doesnt make us smart.

 

[Villain]

Well, at some sleepless nights I have played with the idea of a grand-scale conspiracy. A guy like me would be made a priest and then after years of preaching empty words and playing faces he would become the ultimate spiritual leader of his religion (the pope or whatever). Then he would have a speech, broadcasted all around the world, and he would say that there's no god, the bible is a fantasy-story and should be taken as such, the church is an organization made to control and oppress people and everyone should start believing only in themselves.

What would happen?

Probably nothing - the man would be declared as a lunatic or killed and people would be just as blind as before.

-Villain

 

[E V I L]

Originally posted by Villain
What would happen?

Probably nothing - the man would be declared as a lunatic or killed and people would be just as blind as before.

People need their myths. And when they are stripped of this clothing a vaccum develops (to mix metaphors). As with all vacuums it has to be filled. The anti-christian, in my experience, usually furnishes unsatisfactory answers, purely polemic, or else serves their typical platter of cliches followed by a side of pop wisdoms.

The caveat to consider is that if you take away from a people something as essential as a world-view, and do it without an adequate provision of an alternate world-view, an ethic, a way to live, all motions that question and attack what they already believe will turn into an ad hominem affair. Facts are demoted and disappear and what comes to the fore of attention and argument is motive: Namely, why are you an atheist? Why are you not a Christian? go against the grain? tradition? Why are you so renegade that you feel you need to sabatoge a civilization? These motives will be met with resentment and a suspicion that transmogrifies quickly into resentment.

The simple truth essentialized: To avoid getting shot in the head, you can't only tear down a culture. You have to provide a supply of promise -- to rebuild something better. Atheists typically (unfortunately) polemicize Christians with the myopic purpose of polemicizing only. When they attack they do it as other, as a renegade, a hateful hostile, an alien. I attribute this social habit as one of many reasons things in society (my society at least) have become so bifurcated (ie., you're an atheist, I'm Christian) that all arguments and reasoning that should be heard become moot, a dispute between two incommensurable social entities that will remain incommesurable because they are incommesuralbe. This is the error of our times.

I think in short Atheism doesn't exist yet.

 

[Culture_AK47]

am i the only christian here? lol ..... i feel so alone

 

[SentencedToBurn]

no i am a christian too .... lol
im not too religous though... i go to church once a year (just happens to be today on christmas eve). I dont think you need to go to church every single sunday to be a good person. you know or not if your a good person and that should be enough. You could have a guy that causes nothing but trouble and rapes little children but still can go to church every sunday and he would get into heaven?... i dont think so
lol what am i talking about??? im going to go now before i further the embaressment.

 

[Belial]

Three words about the archbishop's words:

 

[Spotted Owl]

plz, plz, can i be an archbishop too?


Do not question my child!! God moves in mysterious ways that will never be unveiled so, just believe!! and you will get to heaven if u go to church often and pay contributions to us...


see, i have talent...