Savatage/Jon Oliva's Pain/Maniacal Renderings

Dec 3, 2004
2,369
5
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Arizona, USA
www.ryanseek.com
Album of the year contender here, for me. Here's the review I'm writing for the masses at Amazon.com:

This IS the new Savatage

Anyone who whines about no new Savatage albums needs to just shut up and listen to JOP.

For all intents and purposes, this is the newest Savatage record; released under the banner of Jon Oliva's Pain, of course. Why isn't this labeled as a Savatage album? Because the members of Savatage are so involved in solo projects and the money-making machine of Trans-Siberian Orchestra, they aren't always at arm's reach for Jon Oliva, the perrenial song-writer and voice of Savatage. His current band is at arm's reach, all living in the same general area, and they are an awesome backing band in their own right.

That said, you have to be more interested in whether or not this is a GOOD Savatage album. Let me assure you, it is. JOP's first album, 2004's 'Tage Mahal, was definitely a throwback to old school Savatage, but Maniacal Renderings is even more retrospective. Much of this release reminds me of Hall of the Mountain King, Gutter Ballet and Streets. You'll still find modern-day themes like the killer riffs on Poets and Madmen, plus the strange vocal melodies that overlap in a clashing sort of way that actually sounds melodic and somehow natural.

I've never heard Jon's voice sound better than on this album. I've heard criticisms of his vocals in the past, but I think he's just getting better with age. He's learned from the past, knows his limitations, and performs so with gusto. Some nice touches on this album are during the mellower interludes where he does a fantastic Paul McCartney imitation. His favor of the Beatles really shines through in places, spattered throughout an album full of chaotical musical and vocal presentations. Musically, I find Maniacal Renderings a very descriptive title, not only for this album, but Savatage/Jon Oliva in general.

Most improved since 'Tage Mahal is the maturity as the band as a whole. While the first JOP almost had the feel of a Jon Oliva solo album, i.e. Jon and his backing band, Maniacal Renderings has a more cohesive feel to the music overall. Jon's new bandmates are definitely coming into their own and feeling comfortable in their roles. The riffs are oh so Savatage, and the keyboards highlight the songs perfectly, as is usually the case when Jon writes music. The guitar solos compliment the music nicely, although I feel they are a bit too conservative. Maybe on Chapter 3 we'll hear Criss-worthy solos again; them be concrete shoes to fill (as Chris Caffery successfully did in Savatage) and the only missing piece of the perfect puzzle.

Maniacal Renderings ranks five stars and a giant pedastal of gold in my hallowed hall of fame.
 
I like this album and all, but no, it's not Savatage. Is Doctor Butcher Savatage? Is TSO Savatage? No. I have no idea what Jon's ambitions with Pain are, but if he's trying to mutate it into a new "Savatage" it's an enormous stab in the back for Caffery, Plate, Middleton, O'Neill, everyone.

I don't even know why Savatage is on hold. The official truth is that everyone's too busy, which basically means Jon is too busy. And he's busy with JOP, which is now in making to be the new Savatage. WTF? Why not write and record that music with Caffery&Co. then and continue a valuable legacy? At the very least he could just tell everyone Savatage is dead and that would be the end of speculation. But that's all Savatage has been for five years: speculation. It's pretty sad.

I'd like to end this rant with a big "Fuck Jon Oliva" statement, but I can't because Maniacal Rendering really is a great album! :D:kickass:
It's grittier and more down-to-earth than the last Savatage albums and the Beatles stuff does shine through like TSO said, especially in the second half. Not a weak track to be found.
 
tsorl said:
I like this album and all, but no, it's not Savatage. Is Doctor Butcher Savatage? Is TSO Savatage? No. I have no idea what Jon's ambitions with Pain are, but if he's trying to mutate it into a new "Savatage" it's an enormous stab in the back for Caffery, Plate, Middleton, O'Neill, everyone.

I don't even know why Savatage is on hold. The official truth is that everyone's too busy, which basically means Jon is too busy. And he's busy with JOP, which is now in making to be the new Savatage. WTF? Why not write and record that music with Caffery&Co. then and continue a valuable legacy? At the very least he could just tell everyone Savatage is dead and that would be the end of speculation. But that's all Savatage has been for five years: speculation. It's pretty sad.

I'd like to end this rant with a big "Fuck Jon Oliva" statement, but I can't because Maniacal Rendering really is a great album! :D:kickass:
It's grittier and more down-to-earth than the last Savatage albums and the Beatles stuff does shine through like TSO said, especially in the second half. Not a weak track to be found.


Apparently you only read the second half of my opening sentence, tsorl (at least you're listening to JOP)! :D You speak as if it's Jon's fault there is nothing new in the Savatage camp. Well, you can blame that on Paul O'Neill. Jon has stated in numerous interviews that he waited for word from Paul on the next Savatage the year after Poets and Madmen came out. Then he waited some more and waited some more. Finally he said, "fuck it", I'm gonna make my own band. He spoke with Caffery about it, back before he hi-jacked Zach's disgruntled band. Caffery was busy with his solo project and then he needed to commit to TSO. I think Jon just saw the writing on the wall and decided that if he was going to keep making music on a regular basis, he needed local musicians who could dedicate themselves to JOP full time. You blame him for that? I don't.

And other than the guitar solos, this new record sounds very much Savatage to my ears. Much more so than 'Tage Mahal. Sure, in a perfect world, Maniacal Renderings would have featured Caff, Johnny Lee, and Plate, and been titled as Savatage. But the world isn't perfect and I admire what Jon and his new band has been able to accomplish...a VERY close proximity to what Savatage would be if it weren't drifting in stagnant waters.
 
Hey guys . . . I usually stick to the PPUSA board, but Sav is by far my top band, and this caught my eye.

I've heard a lot of reasons why we may never see another Sav record (yeah, yeah, 25th anniversary and all that ). I'm not sure of the truth, but it looks to be a combo of TSO being a huge golden goose (Jon is on record as TSO making more than all the years of Sava put together) and Paul O'Neil. I have to think that, since Caffrey and Oliva are off making music. You assume that if Oliva was holding up Sav, he wouldn't be doing Pain.

Now, I heard a promo of Maniacal, and I bought it down at PP last week. After a few listens, I think it's great. It sounds a lot like old time Sav. Heck, Eyes of the King essentially is a new version of HotMK. However, it isn't Savatage.

That's because Savatage morphed into a conglomeration of O'Neil and Oliva. Without PON, Sav loses some of the bombastic harmonies and counterpoint that made DWD and TWoM so great. The new Pain is still an amazing album, and I agree that Jon hasn't sounded this good since Streets (no, he doesn't sound better than on Streets. But, that's the best album of all time, so that isn't exactly an insult :) It still misses something of that Sav feel.

I'll certainly take it in the interim. I like Pain better than Dr. Butcher or Caff's work (both quality in and of themselves), and this is the closest we'll get to Sav in the near future. But, it just isn't quite there for me.

Steve in Philly
 
DarkOne said:
Hey guys . . . I usually stick to the PPUSA board, but Sav is by far my top band, and this caught my eye.
Steve in Philly

Stick around! You know quite a few of us in here. Like me -- Brent in Colorado.
 
DarkOne said:
Hey guys . . . I usually stick to the PPUSA board, but Sav is by far my top band, and this caught my eye.

Steve in Philly
Thanks for posting, Steve. You'll probably get along just fine here at UMOS. Lots of Savatage fans on these boards! They're also my favorite band, by far. Rock on man, and enjoy the new JOP. It keeps getting better with every listen!

:headbang:
 
Yeah Pat bought this at PP and we gave it a spin on the way back home... I was completely blown away. Not giving it a real close listen, I think it basically is Savatage... which to me is a good thing!

I heard a rumor that they will be doing a "farewell" show/tour next year... Pat and I were brainstorming thinking that the one and only show that they would totally dominate would be, you guessed it, Prog Power VIII. Not sure where the rumor started but it was going around PP... I found it quite odd that Killdrums was there on Friday (I think it was Friday, too much beer) night walking around?!

Nice to see you on here Steve! Zod and I had a conversation about your Nickname... you are the DarkOne without the underscore, right?!?!

Stick around awhile and join the UMOS clan. We are all a good bunch!
 
Narcosynthesys68 said:
Nice to see you on here Steve! Zod and I had a conversation about your Nickname... you are the DarkOne without the underscore, right?!?!

Stick around awhile and join the UMOS clan. We are all a good bunch!

Well, maybe I'll stick around even if you ARE a good bunch! :heh:

The nickname thing is pretty funny. We're both from Philly, both joined the boards within a month, and never knew each other or knew we were sharing the name. We also both have a few shirts in common. Kind of weird.

Steve in Philly
 
This album just became my #1 of the year, which isn't suprising considering my appreciation of Savatage and Jon Oliva. What's impressive is it's knocked out Vanden Plas and Devin Townsend, two albums that have been competing for the top spot since the Spring (and I didn't think would be topped).
 
Trans-Siberian Outcast said:
This album just became my #1 of the year, which isn't suprising considering my appreciation of Savatage and Jon Oliva. What's impressive is it's knocked out Vanden Plas and Devin Townsend, two albums that have been competing for the top spot since the Spring (and I didn't think would be topped).

I assume you already heard Beyond Twilight, Seventh Wonder and Cloudscape ;)

Maniacal Renderings is a superb album, certainly if you play it LOUD. I do think some songs are very "Savatage"; I allways concidered Jon Oliva to be Savatage so... if the Savatage guys are to slow or busy with other stuff they only can blame themselves, Jon has beaten them to it !!
 
carnut said:
I assume you already heard Beyond Twilight, Seventh Wonder and Cloudscape ;)
Well, I'm the one who reminded you to get BT from Hawk on our SS weekend, so that one I've heard. It never really stuck with me like it did you though. Although I do enjoy hearing it when I put it in, there isn't anything about it that makes me want to pull it off the shelf. No melodies or riffs stick in my head, I guess. Cloudscape I've heard some of, but not a whole album. I liked what I did hear. As for Seventh Wonder...never heard of them.

Did Hawk say something about another SS weekend??? I could use it!
 
While I'm by no means a "huge" Savatage fan, I have to comment on this disc.

It is certainly a throwback to the Gutter/Hall days. The great production values, Jon's voice and the songs make this album a sure contender with half of the material that Savatage ever did.

Let's hope to hear a new 'Tage disc soon!