After the usual pleasantries...
JK: So what advantage is there for a starving artist such as yourself to live in one of the most expensive cities in the world?
MS: Its not that expensive for me I just have to stay in the same apartment forever. Ive been in the same apartment now for nine years through rent control, but Im getting really sick of living right in the middle of the city. Id like to have some greenery around me sometimes, but being cooped up gets tiring. Not being able to move makes you feel stuck, plus the fact that Im a musician and in the last two days Ive done nothing but band business for the tour thats coming up, the record. It goes on all day and its like a job you dont get paid for [laughs]. It kinda puts you in this weird situation because Im 35 and Ive been making records now since I was 25, and the bands been together since 1990 so its been a long time, and Im not sick of making music, but the lifestyle its forced me into is kinda weird living poor, never really had a full time job. I finally graduated from college and now Im a graduate student. The only thing left I can do is be a teacher maybe, its the only other thing that wouldnt drive me insane.
JK: What did you graduate in?
MS: Philosophy
JK: Teaching is the way!
MS: [laughing]..so its kinda hard to keep that going, because its hard work, and theres the band, and trying to make money its a bitch, but its all about the rent control. Its also about not wanting a lot of stuff. Its a little alienating.
JK: Whats the day job?
MS: I work in a bar. I did that mostly on weekends while I was at school just to scrape by, and I dont live real lavishly, I dont have a car. We always rent when we tour, or if we go to Europe, well rent a van. Otherwise I worked in a bar, I worked security, I worked the door and bartend once in a while, and I did this temp work in an office doing research for these people, doing AIDS research it sounds real fancy but its not. Its just a bunch of bullshit, looking at computers and calling people up and asking them questions. Pretty lousy work. So my life is kind of depressing although my musical career isnt.
JK: So working in the bar, you potentially have SLOUGH FEG fans coming in and youre serving them beer?
MS: Yeah, its not like were huge or anything obviously, but last week some kid came in and said he thought the new record sounded great. I guess its kinda flattering, it happens once in a while from someone I dont know.
JK: Why is it so fitting to be drinking beer whilst listening to SLOUGH FEG?
MS: Well, thats heavy metal isnt it? I mean its supposed to be that way.
JK: There is something very alcoholic about it though
MS: Yeah well, its celtic, yeah youre right. I like German beer, English beer, mostly European beer. Sometimes Ill drink Budweiser just because its there, but given the preference Ill drink European beer. I love English beer, the Carlings
JK: And the Tetleys.
MS: Yes, the Tetleys, oh man, aw
just that word Tetleys just mentioning that name, it brings me back to Europe. Weve toured there a few times and any mention of the beer and Im instantly blasted back in Germany or England or wherever.
JK: Hypothetically, if you could live anywhere, would you stay in San Francisco.
MS: Not if it wasnt about the band. Well maybe, maybe, because it is cool here but its so expensive. If I could afford a house in this city, to buy one, then Id have to be really rich, but I would like to live in New York actually. Or London, or Hamburg.
JK: Why New York?
MS: Its near where I grew up, one of my friends lives there, and its the best US city, I think its great. San Franciscos great too, but New York is just fantastic. I go there sometimes, to see friends, Ill take the subway, run around town, visiting people. Like at one point a few years ago up until last Christmas, I was going twice a year just because Id be visiting family or on tour, and Id spend days just going between Queens, Brooklyn, and Manhattan just crashing on friends couches, taking the subway all day, its a real blast.
JK: Is there an advantage of living in San Francisco at least for the music scene?
MS: Not in San Francisco, but I think living in the inner city gives you a vibe, thats why our music is so hyper I think. Its city music. It may not be lyrically about city stuff, but its very fast, and stressed out and high paced. There is a better metal scene here though compared to other places in the other country. Its not mainstream oriented you know, its San Francisco, its crazy land. Nothing about San Francisco is mainstream oriented. Whereas LA or New York, theres a lot more big billboards and people trying to sound like the big stuff.
JK: Of course that carries over to the music as well and attracts a type of fan that would fit into that scene. So when you tour somewhere like Greece, how does the average fan differ?
MS: Theyre less phony. Both in Greece and Germany, they actually listen to music. If they dont like something you did theyll tell you. They listen to the riffs, the lyrics, the music, whereas here they just like what theyre supposed to like. Really, its just ridiculous in America. People just trying to be cool and all that. In Greece, people respect each others taste. If a band sucked and they get up on stage and they sound like crap
I mean, in the 70s, if they did that here and they sounded like shit, theyd get booed off the stage. Now that wont happen at all, you know, its like the emperor wears no clothes. Theres a lot of this going on in the country where everyone knows this band sucks deep down but theyre all friends with them or something so they just go along with it. It doesnt make any sense they go to see a death metal show and they see guys making sounds like garbage disposals, and theyre like oh this is killer, and Im like what are you talking about, can you listen?. You dont get away with that in Greece.
JK: But what about your own fans in your own town, do they tend to be a little more genuine?
MS: Yeah pretty much, although I dont think theres that many people who like SLOUGH FEG, at least in this area because theyre supposed to or because its cool, you know, they like it because they have taste.
JK: Where do you think most of your fans are based?
MS: Oh Europe. Completely Greece, Germany, Italy, Romania, Czech Republic, some of those places.
JK: Is there any advantage then of being on a label thats based out in Europe?
MS: Yeah I suppose for Europe, but there arent any real metal labels in America, at least not for true metal.
JK: What was the turning point for you in metal? Was it a specific album or a show?
MS: I didnt see many metal shows when I was younger because I lived in State College (Pennsylvania) so I couldnt get to a lot of concerts. When I turned 15 or 16 I started seeing local ones, and then later, the bigger shows. There wasnt a specific record really, I guess it was IRON MAIDEN, but before that, BLACK SABBATH. Actually, the first record I recall hearing was OZZY OSBOURNEs Diary of a Madman. I think that was the first time I heard a heavy metal album. And then I heard Speak of the Devil, and then Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and then the first SABBATH album. Thats what really did it Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and the first BLACK SABBATH album.
JK: My first album was Bark at the Moon.
MS: Jake E Lee was really good, he didnt get any credit for it either.
JK: My pseudonym on the forum is JayKeeley.
MS: Hah! Thats cool. I wonder what happened to him?
JK: He went on to play in BADLANDS.
MS: Yeah I know that but that was way back then.
JK: After that, he just disappeared and I think he has a small following in Japan, and he released a small instrumental album [Fine Pink Mist] to no real success, and its kind of sad in a way because Randy passed way, and Zakk Wylde went on to do his own thing, but Jake just faded away.
MS: Ozzy will never give him any credit. He never mentions him for some strange reason. See, guys like that, youve got to wonder whether theyre driving a cab now or something? See, the guys in IRON MAIDEN, like Clive Burr, he was last seen driving a cab in London or something, and when I was in London last September, someone told me that Brian Robertson from THIN LIZZY now rents out PAs from a store. I know a lot of rock stars have bad jobs but that guy had songwriting credits on Jailbreak.
JK: Im nearly 35, so the two of us obviously remember what it was like in the mid-80s, and if you think about it, most of those guys not in bands anymore is just this huge waste of talent. And all those hours and hours of practice
MS: Thing is, nobody makes any money anymore in this kind of metal. I mean, even the old bands might get together because someone offers them a spot at Wacken, Metal Blade pay for the air tickets, and otherwise theyre all working on a construction site or something. I mean, were going to play a show with RAVEN at the Keep it True festival and I bet you they work in factories otherwise. I guess Ill find out.
JK: Theyre probably married with kids, taking the weekend off to play a show once in a while.
MS: Yeah probably, but Im 35 and I have no kids, Im still living the lifestyle. My drummer has kids and thats a hardship for us at times but I have an attitude where Im going to do what I do in life and no ones gonna stop me. If somebody else wants to have kids, thats fine.
JK: Take a fan like me. Im the same age as you, but Ill just live vicariously though you.
MS: Well, the thing is, you really DONT want to live my lifestyle. You want the security of a middle class home and I dont blame you at all.
JK: I guess its just the way I was raised.
MS: Well I was raised that way too, but I dont blame you, and in actual fact, I would rather live closer to that, but the band dominates so much, I feel like Im on this momentum and as much as Id like to live like that, I think I couldnt pull myself away from what Im doing with the band to be able to do that. I see myself frying and going crazy because Im not writing music or playing songs all the time.
JK: The ideas must just keep coming and coming. I read in the past that you said you could release an album every year.
MS: Oh easy. Easy. I already have 20 minutes for a new one, and Atavism just came out. I have 4 new songs, I just do it. If I dont try, its better because it comes naturally over time.
JK: In an ironic way, the only thing that prevents you from releasing an album every year is the business side of the metal scene.
MS: Exactly. I wish they could. Its not even that people wouldnt buy it I dont think, its that the label Im on is small and they dont have the money to be putting out an album every year. They dont have $25K total for releasing it, and the marketing, and paying for these phone calls, and pressing the record and artwork. Theyre lucky that we can do our own artwork and stuff like that. Otherwise theyd never be able to afford it. So when did this new album come out? April? Ok, so if I told them I wanted money by next December so I can make a record to come out the following May, they would not be able to afford that at all. I mean, maybe, but I doubt it.
JK: At the same time, if youre a label and you break even, then youre lucky.
MS: Oh yeah, this Cruz del Sur, they dont have shit. I mean, theyve put out a few records now but I dont think theyve made any money yet, but theyre hoping. This is the biggest album theyve put out yet. Thats pretty sad, if SLOUGH FEG is the biggest album youve put out
JK: Can the label help with the tour?
MS: The tour coming up is a US tour with 23 shows, and its through a booking agent called Tone Deaf so there are small guarantees to make $200 or $300 for a show here or there. So well be making enough to survive on the tour. Then the rest is all on t-shirt sales. I just reserved a van so we have to go pay for that. I mean, van rental alone is very expensive at $100 per day.
JK: So the entire US tour will be you guys in the van, youre not flying anywhere?
MS: Not in the US, no. They set it up so there are several big city shows: Chicago, New York, Austin Texas, Boston, Richmond, LA, Phoenix, Atlanta, and so on. They dont pay that much, unless the show really packs out and you get lucky, then you could walk out of a show like that with maybe a $1000, including merchandise sales, but 15% of that needs to go back to the booking agent. The merchandise costs money to make in the first place, Im spending all my money on merchandise and van rental. So its self managed its booked by an agent, but otherwise self managed. Were even driving the van ourselves. I guess we could bring a driver but wed have to pay them so it would be even worse. Well probably break even or maybe make just a little bit of money. Wed never do it without the booking agent though.
JK: And the bar is ok with you taking off for 2 weeks?
MS: Oh yeah yeah, its actually 3 weeks.
JK: So if you go to Europe, are you paying for the flights?
MS: No, not now. We did before, because our last label wouldnt do it. The last time we went, we paid for the flights upfront with the understanding that wed make money back but all the flights within Europe, the equipment rental, the hotels and all that stuff comes out of what we make at a show. But you see, in Greece, they can charge 20 Euros for a ticket and people will see us. In Germany, they can charge 10, and in Dublin they charge something ridiculous like 12 Euros, which is a lot of money, but they take care of us. We get fed, everything is paid for, the planes are all paid for in between countries, we dont spend a cent when were there, but then all the gig money goes to support that so we sell them merchandise to pay for our plane flights back. The last tour was the first time we broke even or even came near. So this time, the labels actually paying for the plane tickets flight out.
JK: So before the last tour, you always lost money?
MS: The first three times we went over, we lost money. Thats the way it goes, those labels out there arent going to pay for plane tickets. Thing is, this time they got it for just over $2000 if they do it long enough in advance, and plus were doing it in November this time so its not a high season so they can spend the $2k or whatever it is and just tack it on to the $25K debt thats already there in the first place. They figure, whats another couple of thousand bucks? Its tough man. This comes to no surprise to you Im sure, us not making any money.
JK: It doesnt. The whole zine thing, its all paid for out of my pocket. The forum we have, weve now got a bunch of regulars and we can talk about the music all day long. Its nice to have that community where we can all highlight particular bands and then talk about them.
MS: Oh its great, we wouldnt survive it wasnt for people like you. Its not a big business thing, its a bunch of people
take the Miskatonic Foundation, we wouldnt be doing anything were doing if it wasnt for Rich [Walker, SOLSTICE guitarist/songwriter, and owner of Miskatonic Foundation], at least in Europe. And other people like Metal Supremacy who put all our vinyl releases out and bend over backwards for us when we come to Europe. And I would do the same for them when they come here. Its because were all friends. We all hang out, I mean we met through touring, but when we get together in Germany: Rich, and me, and the people from Metal Supremacy at their house in Hamburg, we have a big party when we come out there. We stay at their house, we have a giant BBQ, and invite all these bands over, and have tons and tons of beer, its really fucking fun. Its a blast.
JK: From a fan point of view, we spend so much time talking about you, reading about you, listening to your music, its almost as if the fan gets to know you before weve even met you in real life.
MS: Totally yeah.
JK: I mean, theres no way we dont recognize your sacrifices.
MS: And thats what makes it worth it.