snare replacement on gravity blasts

Fragle

Fragle

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Jul 27, 2005
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title says it all, basically....i'm getting into sample replacement, using freeware "replacer" as of right now, and everything works fine, no false hits etc. however, for some reason i can't get gravity blasts, i.e. 16th notes on the snare, to trigger properly. seems like i'm only getting 8th notes max. fast snare fills are buried/mistriggered, too.

any ideas?
thanks! :kickass:
 
I haven't ever done anything with gravity blasts, but I guess normal drum fills should be the same? Anyway if stuff isn't triggering right, take the original trigger sample and high pass it at like 1khz or so THEN run it into your sample replacer. The lower frequencies move slower and if you high pass it then that should leave just a nice transient which is easier to pick up that the original sample with a lot of decay in the lowend.
 
I have no experience in triggering gravity blasts but I would think OzNimbus is very correct :) Triggering gravity blasts via a sound replacer in the mix is just inhuman... automation will probably save you time instead of you trying to tweak and tweak and tweak for hours.

However, if you do want to tweak and not automate, you can still try to automate the parameters in your trigger software? Maybe your "hold" time is set too high, which makes the gravity blast not trigger on some hits, etc etc. So if you find a setting that works, automate the trigger software parameters during the gravity blast, and then take them back to the previous setting.

Or maybe the drummer just doesn't hit even enough to trigger the gravity blast... so I still think doing what OzNimbus said is the best, and would probably save you time in the end :)
 
Morgoe said:
I haven't ever done anything with gravity blasts, but I guess normal drum fills should be the same? Anyway if stuff isn't triggering right, take the original trigger sample and high pass it at like 1khz or so THEN run it into your sample replacer. The lower frequencies move slower and if you high pass it then that should leave just a nice transient which is easier to pick up that the original sample with a lot of decay in the lowend.
Click to expand...

Hey that's a cool idea! I had never thought about high-passing it. Does this work for kick and toms as well?
 
Can't see why it wouldn't. I have a REALLY awkward way of programming my drums. I compose everything (other instruments too) in Sibelius then export the drums as a midi into Sonar's StudioDrummer or whatever its called, MIDI->audio programming. But that only allows one sample, so no random samples and no varying velocities. I chuck a really tight kick drum in there (snare would work better but I use kick, not quite sure why I do ;p) and then use Drumagog to replace that. I often have to highpass it for the ghost notes on the snare drum to work, so all I get is the click.
 
I'm usually not even automating..

just delete the silcence between the hits so that you only have the VERY FIRST bit of the transient remaining that way the space between the hits is bigger and the difference between "above/below" threshold is more defined...makes replacers (I'm using aptrigga) to trigger way better.
 
For the worst case I've had to deal with, I used drumagog to record a midi track out of the snare and kick tracks and then edit those manually because the playing needed lots of time correction. Next I ran the midi to an audio track and it triggered the samples.
 
@LSD

Its physics..lower frequencies have their FREQUENCIES lower, ie. the wave is longer, with more gaps between the tops and bottom. Also if you have a speaker, it needs to move slowly to produce low frequencies, or fast to produce higher ones. A more practical example would be a gate on say a distorted bass. The top-end of the distorted bass can get clamped down on fairly fast, but you have to set the release higher otherwise the low-end distorts.

I could be completely wrong here, but let me know! I dropped physics after a year (boring as hell!) so this is partly from my own experience, I'd hate to be sharing wrong information. BUT in any case the method still works well, even if lower frequencies move just as fast, with drums or whatever people use to trigger, the attack is in the upper segment and thats the bit that you want to trigger, the low-end will only muddy it up. Its basically what you're doing (deleting the silences), it serves to increase the difference between 'on' and 'off', but in a much faster way.
 
Morgoe said:
@LSD

Its physics..lower frequencies have their FREQUENCIES lower, ie. the wave is longer, with more gaps between the tops and bottom. Also if you have a speaker, it needs to move slowly to produce low frequencies, or fast to produce higher ones. A more practical example would be a gate on say a distorted bass. The top-end of the distorted bass can get clamped down on fairly fast, but you have to set the release higher otherwise the low-end distorts.
.
Click to expand...

that's true! I was just referring to this:

"The lower frequencies move slower"
and interpreted it as "the lower feqs travel slower"

the lower the frequency, the bigger the wavelength, so the distances between the peaks are bigger, that's correct.

that doesn't mean it travels faster/slower though, the speed of sound is still the same...

imagine how it would sound if it would be travelling faster(slower, lol...if someone yells at you from 100m distancce you wouldnt understand a word, but it would sound like a serious of downward sinesweeps cause the high frequencies arive first ;)
 
first of all, thanks for the input! greatly appreciated!

now, please excuse the newb question, but when you talk about automation, what do you mean?
as of right now, automation for me basically means automating (duh) level or panning faders etc...somehow i don't quite understand how this could help me with snare triggering? please excuse my newbness ;-)

anyways, one thing to mention is that right now i'm only using addictive drums, so there's no bleedthrough or false hits or something to take care of. the snare track is already very consistent and clean, obviously.
well, maybe there's a better way of replacing the stock AD samples with higher quality ones?
last mix i did i manually replaced every snare hit with the nevermore "born" snare, as the AD ones didn't quite fit in the mix as well.
 
now, please excuse the newb question, but when you talk about automation, what do you mean?
as of right now, automation for me basically means automating (duh) level or panning faders etc...somehow i don't quite understand how this could help me with snare triggering? please excuse my newbness ;-)
Click to expand...

i'm not sure what the other guys mean by it, but to me i just cut up the snares and raise the volume on them so there peaking at roughly the same volume as all the other snares. i also cut all the gaps out between the hits.
 
A band you might want to check out is Kataklysm. However, the blasts are so fast that it sounds ridiculous with the gravity blasts as loud as the main snare hits. At insane speeds, it just doesn't sound that good in my opinion. However, all your ideas are interesting and I see how it would be a difficult challenge.
 
If it were Drumagog it would usually first be a resolution settings.

The Resolution would need to be changed to allow the 16th notes to be detected. Same with fast kicks. And if that wasnt enough then the Sensativity would be lowered to allow softer hits.

I usually create a second track for the gravity blasts and either bump the volume up or compress it to make it heard naturally or do a combination of that plus use a sound replacer with a low mix setting.

Gravity blasts and drum replacers can tend it make it sound more like a drum roll.

Last resort would be to build it using random snare hits.
 
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