Symphony X song construction

[Granskog]

Ive thought alot about how they build their songs tonally. They allways sound so natural even though they have all these key changes. Are there some kind of theory involved?

This is really apparent in Of Sins and Shadows where the verse is in C#m, the bridge in ?? and the chorus in Bb. The vocals sound very good and obvious but i dont get the theory behind it...

The interlude in Evolution ("oh we shall live forever..") is really strange also. Does someone know the theory behind that?

Ive registred that romeo often shifts up or down a minor third when it is a phrygian riff ( examples: inferno solos, evolution solos and 2nd verse, in the dragons den solos and so forth...). And sometimes changes up or down a major third when its in regular (or harmonic) minor (example: of sins and shadows solos).


What are your thoughts of this?


Ive seen it written somewhere that Romeo wants talk about some "serious" theory and song structuring in his next instr. video. Maybe I'll know then...

 

[Luis]

For Example: The structure of Sins and Shadows is simple but complex. I mean the main riff is based in A minor, the bass does the same notes, then the keys emrge with the main theme with changes (F# minor).

The verses are based in B minor and F# amjor (Pinella plays arpeggios instead of chords) and Miller and Romeo do the b note with 16s and 32s)

The pre-chorus is based in G major- F minor - A minor - B major - D major and E major.( An interested chord sequence).

The Chorus is based in G#

The bringe is in based in C minor with changes to G major.(Chaning a semi-tone)

The solo section is based in Bb minor and F# (Guitar solo) and D major and F#)

The last solo is higher than the original one with the bass ascending.

This looks very simple, just a bunch of chords. But Romeo and Pinella have spended many years in studying new formulas, they are never afraid to try new things. Epics such as TDWOT prove it.

 

[Liquid Shadow]

There really aren't many "rules" to key changes...almost any key change can work if you do it right.

 

[Granskog]

There really aren't many "rules" to key changes...almost any key change can work if you do it right.

yes, thats probalby the case. its just the fact that they do it extraordinary "right" every time!

 

[SyXified]

Not to take any credit away from the band as composers, but in general, fans of Symphony X are more open minded to accepting musical "challenges" like key changes. I know there are a few key changes that SX does that at first I was like.... yikes, that was harsh... and then over time when you get used to what they were going for, it sounds perfectly natural and you can't even remember it being jarring. Often times the success of a key change lies within the listeners willingness to understand where the piece is moving and how the mood is affected.

In terms of theoretical sense, there are two types of key changes: direct and gradual. Direct is like the beginning of Sins and Shadows, where the riff simply transposes to a different key all of a sudden. The effect is more jarring, but it's pretty readily acceptable to the ear after a few listens. Iron Maiden made a career from the minor 3rd distance direct key change. The ones that are really cool are the gradual ones, where you start inserting notes from a newer key, or focusing on notes two keys have in common and shift your tonal center around your harmonies. It may sound complicated, but if you noodle around with the concept enough it comes pretty naturally, you just have to have a good head about where you are trying to go to, and how the harmonies sound in reference to one key versus the next.

 

[MorphineChild205]

Not to take any credit away from the band as composers, but in general, fans of Symphony X are more open minded to accepting musical "challenges" like key changes. I know there are a few key changes that SX does that at first I was like.... yikes, that was harsh... and then over time when you get used to what they were going for, it sounds perfectly natural and you can't even remember it being jarring. Often times the success of a key change lies within the listeners willingness to understand where the piece is moving and how the mood is affected.

My brother bitches when I make recommendations for his own band's songs, like "If you change the key for the solo, it might sound more interesting" or "Make the second verse a half-step lower than the first." He just gets pissed and says "We're not Dream Theater or some prog band." I take it multiple key changes within a song don't sound natural to him. Personally, I think a song is boring as hell without them.

 

[Granskog]

In terms of theoretical sense, there are two types of key changes: direct and gradual.

Can you give an example of the gradual one?

 

[SyXified]

Can you give an example of the gradual one?

Just off the top of my head, the one in the opening of Odyssey between the first two sections (the first one major, the second minor), there is a build where the bass notes trill and begin to add in notes from the new minor key. I'm not positive, but I believe the last big chord of that run is a transition chord that kindof works in both keys. If it were to have stayed major it would have been higher. If I can find a good one in sheet music, I'll post it. For gradual key changes, one of the best things to look for is the use of a secondary dominant chord. These chords (major triad, with a minor 7 on top) serve as transitions between two keys in the most fundamentally theoretical sense. If you want to test it, just play a riff in D major, then hit a G dom7 (fingering staring on low E would be 3, 5, 3, 4) and then immediatly following that hit a C major. This C should sound completely resolved, your new 1 chord. Now you are in C major. Dom7 chords always tonicize the chord a perfect fourth above (G -> C = perfect 4th).