The Beat Detective Discussion

::XeS::

Member
Mar 30, 2005
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Hi
I think BD needs an official thread when we can speak about problems or tricks to work better with it.

So let's go.
I have a doubt: I have my kick track and the quicker parts are in 16th, so I select 1/16 note in the Selection tab. But in my kick track there are also triplets. So what I have to do? I have to select simply the triplets option or I have to switch to 1/32note (if, of course, the triplets are 32th)?

And which track do you usually use as key for your edit? Kick, Snare or both?
 
Another problem: When I'm preparing the track for the separation and I'm setting the beat triggers for every transient, sometimes a beat trigger has a wrong value. So with a double click I can set the right value of where the trigger is supposed to be (thanks James for the trick) but sometimes BD doesn't accept any value you enter. For example I have a trigger at 4|1|800 but it's supposed to be at 4|1|840...but I'm not able to change the value 800.
 
i think most of it is covered in the "i love pro tools' thread... but i'll condense and re-post my advice there here... give me a bit though... working on a mix at the moment.
 
i think most of it is covered in the "i love pro tools' thread... but i'll condense and re-post my advice there here... give me a bit though... working on a mix at the moment.

Anyway I understood all your advice, but my problem is different.
When I wanna enter a new value for a wrong beat trigger, sometimes it accepts the new value, sometimes I enter a value but the trigger remains the same (wrong).
 
My problem with beat detective is that when i select a section, lets say the intro section, at the end of the section the drummer was rushing a bit and the cymbal hit for the first bar, of the next section of the song, is in the intro selection, lets say the verse is after the intro. So i beat detective the into and now its basically chopped up that cymbal hit that needed to be on the 1 beat of the verse or next section. This usually happens quite a bit and then I'm left with a bunch of chopped cymbals in the end that are not fixed with crossfades.

Does anyone else experience this and whats your work around for such a thing?

Sometimes I just slide the whole song or section to the right a bit but that can throw off the stuff thats played correctly and then beat detective throws hits were they should not be. Also what Ive done is sample the cymbals of the session and replace on those chopped hits when needed.
 
When I chose for example 8 bars, after I use BD I'll ALWAYS check the first beat to see if it is chopped.
If it is, I will manually trim to the beginning of the cymbal/drum that was chopped and then move it in place.
Then I just do a manual crossfade. Problem solved.

One thing that I always do is to first comp the best parts of the tracks to a playlist group that I call in the end ....Edit.
Then I create a new playlist group with the end ...BT and copy the contents of the previous playlist group.
Only after that I will start using BD.
It has happen to me before to make some BT edits that I find in the end that are wrong. So saving the ...edit Playlist group I will have the original compd track for reference and even copy if I need to.
 
Hi
I have a doubt: I have my kick track and the quicker parts are in 16th, so I select 1/16 note in the Selection tab. But in my kick track there are also triplets. So what I have to do? I have to select simply the triplets option or I have to switch to 1/32note (if, of course, the triplets are 32th)?

If I have small portions of triplets, I will exclude them from BD detection and then manually BD them if needed.
If I have a lot of triplets I will BT that hwhole part seperatly ticking triplets.
In this case I look at the marker tempos to see if BD is detecting right. Sometimes I will have to insert the correct values.


And which track do you usually use as key for your edit? Kick, Snare or both?

I use Kick and Snare, when Kick and snare hits at the same time and one is off, I always use the snare as reference point, only because I can manually move kicks from the Kick track only without having problems of hearing the original kick on the overheads mics.
Moving snare hits on the snare track, I would have that problem.
 
okay...
well heres how i approach B.D.
just the way i learnt and sure aint the be all/ end all but it works for me...

Create 2 edit groups, one which is Kick Snare Toms; and another which is all drums.

After having comped your drums and duplicated the playlist that the comp is on and done a SAVE AS, (thank me later) Make a selection from the begining of the song up til where the first drum fill is.
Make sure you're in grid mode and make sure the selection starts and preferably ends on a bar. And ISN"T OVER TEMPO CHANGES/METER CHANGES

With only the kick/snare/toms edit group selected (i call it drum bd) bring up the beat detective window (Cmd+8) [im sad the man with the hat has gone in 8... that was my favourite thing about BD]
Then click Region seperation then Capture Selection
Make sure you have a Trigger pad of 10 Ms, and that the contains is right for the content of the beat.
The hit Analyze
then drag the slider towards the right; I've found that around 21-23% is the sweet spot most of the time.
Then quickly check through to make sure there are no mistriggers and remove any by clicking alt or add by dragging the slider up.
Then turn on the all drums edit group, and hit ; to select down and select the rest of the drums
Then hit Seperate

Once this is done switch to Region Conform
now depending on the content of the material and how good the drummer is; this will affect how much you adjust/use these sliders.
For good drummers in More rock stuff i normally do Strength 85-90% And exclude within around 10-15% By the way, be warned if you are running 7.3 that these do NOT work properly
For more metal stuff the settings are generally a little less forgiving, especially if the drummer is punching above their weight; in which case ill just go for 100%.

Then hit conform

Then Hit play and check through to see if any hits got moved to the wrong place and correct them; either by undoing and adjust the conform settings, or by moving manually if it's one hit.

If you did not select from the begining of a bar you may get a "conform bars/beats to new location" message. If you get that just select back to the begining of a bar; even if its over something you've already conformed.

If all's well then move on to the next section .


I work by doing beats in one chunk and then fills seperatly as they tend to be different bar/beat values and this makes it easier/less time fixing mistakes.
Once ive done the whole song, ill listen back through (with all the gaps/cuts) and make any final adjustments.
Then highlight the whole song.
duplicate the playlist.
SAVE AS
then bring up BD and choose Edit Smoothing and fill and crossfade.

Around 5-7 ms normally does the trick.
NOW go grab a cup of coffee/cigarette while Bd fades away.

When its done; consolidate (alt+shift+3) then select unused regions (cmd+shift+u) and remove them (cmd+shift+B) Click REMOVE do NOT for the love of god click DELETE

Then listen through make sure all edits are good, grab and fixes from either your comp playlist or bd playlist.
Once thats done, consolidate again.
SAVE AS
Delete unused playlists - yes the ones with the comp and the bd on them. - thats why youve been hitting save as so often
Clear unused regions -

Voila nice clean drum session.
If you need to grab any other fixes, go back to the other session and grab it from there.




That was epic.
time for a ciggarette.
 
okay...
well heres how i approach B.D.
just the way i learnt and sure aint the be all/ end all but it works for me...

Create 2 edit groups, one which is Kick Snare Toms; and another which is all drums.

After having comped your drums and duplicated the playlist that the comp is on and done a SAVE AS, (thank me later) Make a selection from the begining of the song up til where the first drum fill is.
Make sure you're in grid mode and make sure the selection starts and preferably ends on a bar. And ISN"T OVER TEMPO CHANGES/METER CHANGES

With only the kick/snare/toms edit group selected (i call it drum bd) bring up the beat detective window (Cmd+8) [im sad the man with the hat has gone in 8... that was my favourite thing about BD]
Then click Region seperation then Capture Selection
Make sure you have a Trigger pad of 10 Ms, and that the contains is right for the content of the beat.
The hit Analyze
then drag the slider towards the right; I've found that around 21-23% is the sweet spot most of the time.
Then quickly check through to make sure there are no mistriggers and remove any by clicking alt or add by dragging the slider up.
Then turn on the all drums edit group, and hit ; to select down and select the rest of the drums
Then hit Seperate

Once this is done switch to Region Conform
now depending on the content of the material and how good the drummer is; this will affect how much you adjust/use these sliders.
For good drummers in More rock stuff i normally do Strength 85-90% And exclude within around 10-15% By the way, be warned if you are running 7.3 that these do NOT work properly
For more metal stuff the settings are generally a little less forgiving, especially if the drummer is punching above their weight; in which case ill just go for 100%.

Then hit conform

Then Hit play and check through to see if any hits got moved to the wrong place and correct them; either by undoing and adjust the conform settings, or by moving manually if it's one hit.

If you did not select from the begining of a bar you may get a "conform bars/beats to new location" message. If you get that just select back to the begining of a bar; even if its over something you've already conformed.

If all's well then move on to the next section .


I work by doing beats in one chunk and then fills seperatly as they tend to be different bar/beat values and this makes it easier/less time fixing mistakes.
Once ive done the whole song, ill listen back through (with all the gaps/cuts) and make any final adjustments.
Then highlight the whole song.
duplicate the playlist.
SAVE AS
then bring up BD and choose Edit Smoothing and fill and crossfade.

Around 5-7 ms normally does the trick.
NOW go grab a cup of coffee/cigarette while Bd fades away.

When its done; consolidate (alt+shift+3) then select unused regions (cmd+shift+u) and remove them (cmd+shift+B) Click REMOVE do NOT for the love of god click DELETE

Then listen through make sure all edits are good, grab and fixes from either your comp playlist or bd playlist.
Once thats done, consolidate again.
SAVE AS
Delete unused playlists - yes the ones with the comp and the bd on them. - thats why youve been hitting save as so often
Clear unused regions -

Voila nice clean drum session.
If you need to grab any other fixes, go back to the other session and grab it from there.




That was epic.
time for a ciggarette.

Exactly what I do. EXACTLY! Only thing is I only consolidate once. If there's a mistake I usually got back to the faded playlist...fix the mistake...copy it to the consolidate playlist and re-consolidate.
 
So do you work per sections? Or do you sometime process the whole song with one passage?
Do you chop the track even if some trigger time is wrong? Because some trigger accept a new value and some trigger don't :\
 
Exactly what I do. EXACTLY! Only thing is I only consolidate once. If there's a mistake I usually got back to the faded playlist...fix the mistake...copy it to the consolidate playlist and re-consolidate.

thats what i said wonnit??
good to know that someone else does it this way... that makes 3 people i know...:Smug:
 
After having comped your drums and duplicated the playlist that the comp is on and done a SAVE AS, (thank me later)

What do you mean here?
You mean select the best takes and create a single takes with the best parts, and after that duplicate it to have a comped drums backup? (I know what's comp but it's to know if you mean the same thing in your explanation :) )
 
in regards to the SAVE AS thing...here's how I label my sessions in the order I do the editing...

SONG TITLE Drums Comp
SONG TITLE Drums Edit
SONG TITLE Drums XF
SONG TITLE Drums Conso
SONG TITLE Drums Final

With this label/saving scheme, it makes it easy to back track if weeks/months from now you want to recomp the drums.