The usual downward spiral for most bands.

Goober

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Dec 20, 2004
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I'm sure you've noticed that MANY bands usually have albums that start great, but then after they release more and more they start to turn to crap, why is it that this happens? Is it that they probably used up their best material in earlier albums? or was it that their greatness gets to their heads?
 
if you can define qualitatively what generates that creative "spark," then you'll be a billionaire
 
^Good times with the banner.

Many bands never really have anything, they just have some luck. Thus the one-hit wonders.

Then there are other bands that never have much popularity but come out with consistant music.
 
It's because people change.

Let me explain this as best I can. I have a rock band. We are good. As soon as we get stuff recorded it's going up on the board and we're going to make a demo CD and everything and try to get signed and play shows. We fucking slay.

When I first started writing songs for the band (I am the primary songwriter), I was about 19 years old and my longtime girlfriend had just left me for another woman and I was angsty and angry and dark. I wrote some real killer tunes. Real deep stuff, bordering on emo but much darker, very doomy. Early Sabbath shit, here.

Now, I have a fiancee, I'm going to be married in May. I've got a new job, my future is bright. Things are looking up. In short, I'm happy.

However, when I sit down to try to write a song, it is more often than not absolute shit. For every one song idea I stick with there are three or four songs that are absolute drivel, and if we ever put them on an album they'd be filler. I cannot write a song filled with bile and vitriol any more, because I no longer feel those things. My life makes me want to write about butterflies and puppies. I HATE music about happy things.

So what am I to do? I spent a long time thinking about this. In the end I asked myself, "What would Opeth do?" The answer, it seems to me, is write music that is not as angry but overwhelmingly artistic. I may not be an angry teenager but I can sure as hell make art like a motherfucker.

My point is, bands grow up, people change. This happened to Metallica. As they grew up, they became more mature, and success simply made them less angry at life and the government and other aspects of their previous works. Most bands experience this sort of change. Dee Snider, frontman for Twisted Sister, once said, "It's hard to make music about being an angsty teenager when you're sitting by the pool of your mansion next to your hot wife." Such is the paradox of success.

The same things don't mean as much to a 23 year old as they do to the same person at 33. The fact that they've used their good material may have something to do with it, but the simple fact remains that artists make art that is relevant to them and what is relevant to a musician one year may not be the same at another year, another album, another stage in his life.

Subsequently, those to whom the original or "better" material IS relevant will wonder, "what happened to this band/artist? why did they start to suck?" Indeed the overall quality of the music may have fallen, but farbeit for us to say that an artist's music sucks simply because he writes or plays about different subjects.

Except Metallica. They just suck now.
 
RDreamer said:
Except Metallica. They just suck now.
:lol:

My "story" is similar to yours but in reverse. I was happy, and now I am tortured. But yet there is hope, and it shows in my music. If my situation were to change, I'm sure my music would, at least lyrically. Perhaps not musically because I do so love minor and dissonant chords.
 
I think it also has to do with the fact that before a band gets off the ground, they have had plenty of time to write the best possible material with no rush. Once they start playing shows or get signed, they can't keep playing the same songs forever; so they write new music that is rushed.

I have been writing a single song for almost a year now. If I am not satisfied 100% with a part of the song, I am not using it. I want to start a band soon, but I don't know what I'm going to do because after I get the band together, I'm not going to be able to take this long writing songs. I'm hoping that it will be faster with a real drummer instead of creating drums in fruityloops, which takes forever!

Anyway, back to what I was saying... okay, most music doesn't take this long to write because they are usually 3 or 4 minute songs with about three riffs each, but I think my theory still applies because they had so much time to perfect their songs in the beginning, but not anymore.

I also hear a lot of bands say that their new album is going to be more "mature" and "melodic" and usually when I finally listen to it, it sounds like music that was written for radio play. I think that these bands really think that their new music is better because it sounds like something you would hear on the radio.

And RDreamer, I have a solution for writing lyrics now that you're happy. You can still write tortured lyrics, they just don't have to be about yourself. Be an observer. Write about your friends or a book or a movie or just create a story that doesn't have to do with you. The lyrics for the song I am writing are going to be based on Resident Evil 4, but you would probably never know it if I didn't tell you. They are going to be pretty sick lyrics when they are finished.
 
I feel like I'm in the same boat as RDreamer. I can't write angsty shit like I used to when I was 16, as I simply don't feel that way anymore. However, I do feel like my music is still as dark (if not darker) than it always has been. It is also more "mature" (read complex, not pop). As for lyrics, I find myself thinking of philosophical ideas (ala Winds) or pagan themes (Burzum, Therion etc).
 
I think a lot of it has to do with older songs being around so much longer than newer songs, thus creating the aura of the older songs being more "long lasting" or "classic", etc. The band may still write great songs but fans will always be longing for those older songs because they've been around longer and have more familiarity, which in turn probably creates the perception that the newer stuff just cannot compete with the older stuff and the older stuff is better.
 
AFairJudgement0 said:
is this correct? because if it is I double emphasize with you.. That would be a real kicker to have a g/f leave for another woman...

you'd be suprised how often that happens
 
BANNEDadrian put it nicely in his initial post.

I also think In Flames said it best: Reroute to Remain. This is especially the case with Underground bands. You can only keep true to your core for so long until reality kicks in. But that's only one aspect of it. There is a lot to why bands go down hill.
 
Yes, it's accurate. I was with her for two and a half years while she was away in college across the country (I'm in Oregon, she went to school in Pennsylvania). While doing the long-distance thing, she eventually decided she was a lesbian or at least bisexual and decided to leave me for her female dorm-mate. It was a really shitty situation and it broke my heart for a long time, but I met an awesome new girl and everything's wonderful now.

Thanks frugihoyi for your suggestion. I'll keep that in mind. I do think however that even if I were to observe a fictional character whom I had made up solely to experience pain in a song, it would still be difficult to assume that sort of mindset, wherein the natural thing to happen to my protagonist is to experience pain and generally have shit dumped on him. However, it will certainly less difficult than seeing myself in that situation. I'll give it a try!
 
I think it's possible that after a certain number of years, you can just run out of "good" ideas, without re-hashing the past...
 
This is something I've always speculated about. I think Dimebag once promised that he'd get heavier with each album. I think he pretty much did, although I must admit to not knowing much Damageplan. Maybe he was just talking about Pantera...

Anyhow, sometimes the artistic direction ceases to be in the band's control. For a very brief time in college, Joey Kramer's step-daughter was in my band. Everyone seemed to know her dad was in Aerosmith but me (she didn't have his last name). When I finally found out, she told me about how for a long time, Aerosmith didn't have artistic control of their music and how that was soon to change. This was 1992, and not really being a fan, I don't know what kind of impact that had.

Some artists change and it's cool. For me, the classic example is David Bowie. Sometimes his explorations are cool, sometimes they fall flat. But at least he keeps going.
 
I think we forget that some bands really only have one or two great albums in them. People tend to overhype and over rate bands in metal. If a band comes out with one album that kicks ass on all counts and then rip through 3 more albums that are just mediocre (ala FF, In Flames, etc) then they're just not a great band. Only a few bands can really have the "greatness" status. IMO these are bands like Nevermore, Devin Townsend, Kalmah, etc. It's kind of like metal's version of a "one hit wonder."
 
The only band I think that have produced a superior album to their previous, every release, is PoS. There are plenty of bands that have been awesome throughout their career, but PoS are the only ones to completely and perfectly reverse your theory.
 
First off I'd like to say I disagree with the metallica thing. I didn't like load and reload. I love st anger, but it is completely different than other stuff. I didnt like the black album and still dont much. Now i have kids and we listened to Fuel off Load and my kids loved it, and a garnered a new appreciation for it.

I think metallica is a good example of people thinking bands suck as they go along. Kill em all, ride the lightning, master of puppets were great back in the day and still are. I was beginning to think they started to suck when and justice for all came out, but i liked that one ok, and still do.

Bands change, and people that are listening to these bands change. One year i want hard fast aggressive metal. And another year i will like softer metal with more melodies.

If i had been narrowminded enough the first time hearing Opeth with their soft acoustic parts, i would have dismissed them. But now they are my favorite band.

The best thing is to appreciate all kinds of music for what they are. If you dont like it, dont listen to it.

I listen to everything, everything...if dont like it i dont listen to it. Some times i keep listening to it and it grows on me and i start to like it.

I will listen to Toby Keith, Ani DiFranco, Slayer, Cradle of Filth, and DMX. If i dont like listening to something, then i wont and i will listen to something else.

Remember, a band "sucking" is just your opinion. Personally, i am glad Metallica (for example) isnt rehashing Master of Puppets. Then we'd say, jesus can't they come up with something new instead of these stale old riffs.

I've read that Opeth cant figure out anything new, that they keep rehashing what's worked in the past. GR is brilliant, in fact it's just as brilliant as Orchid or My Arms, Your Hearse. I happen to like GR better, but that doesnt mean a dont have any less of an appreciation for MYYH.

People need to realize that art is art, even if their trying to put it on the radio. Peoples reasons for making art is different, but no less valid. The other day I heard Alice in Chains Down in a Hole, I dont really like them or the song, but it's been stuck in my head the last couple of days. Does that make it any less valid than any Opeth song that gets stuck in my head? Just because i like opeth better?

Sorry i kinda went off, but maybe somebody will relate...