tollkein was a hack

[goatschool]

essENTially he was!

but what i want is other people's opinions on this GWB push for this codifying-of-marraige deal.

my initial thought is that this seems like a second term move. i mean, if he doesn't realize that half the population is gay, he is more chimp than any internet picture conveys.

unless the admin feels that the church-masses were turned away because of the recent military action, and needed to respond in some way that pleases them, but i can't picture the majority of the christians as having a problem with a muslim crusade, and also, they're all gay too.

granted, i am naive.

what am i missing that is really obvious here? because it seems like this is a big chunk of politcal suicide and indicitave that he doesn't expect to be around for term 2.

 

[xfer]

i'm pretty confused, actually. my political theory is that the GOP is gradually distancing itself from the Christian right; i wonder if NOT coming out against gay unions would've been seen as too drastic (un-gradual) a step away from the Christian right, whose votes Bush is going to need in 2004 (see the red swath in the South from 2000). maybe?

 

[lizard]

eventually I think the courts will decide that any laws against gay marriage are unconstitutional. it may take a while but that's what I think.

I'm beginning to think the Prez has stepped into some really smelly piles of poo and he can't ride the 9/11 wave any longer. but as long as the Dems can't seem to develop a single candidate to stand out from the pack, their opposition is diffused and ineffective.

 

[minxnim]

i was very alarmed to see 4 separate polls taken that said on average, at least 65% of americans were against gay marriage ever being legal. i know polls are totally slanted but i was like, wow... all those people... totally riddled with unnecessary hatred...

 

[xfer]

well those polls probably give equal weight to all Americans, which isn't representative of American culture. culturally, i think it's absolutely "time" for gay unions to be recognized, and i think the President (and, unfortunately, the Pope, see CNN.com today) realise this and are launching a very desperate and powerful battle to change that.

 

[goatschool]

if something like this passes, there's gonna be a huge backlash. huge. i dare say bigger than anything we've seen.

 

[minxnim]

some jerk at my job keeps saying 'if it weren't for all these rednecks and shit'.... and i'm like HELLO OVER HERE REDNECK HELLO?

anyway. i gave up on politics. i wish i hadn't, but my mind won't wrap itself around it lately. either way, it brings me down. like, i dont understand what people think they'll lose by letting gays get married?

 

[goatschool]

okay, maybe it doesn't even have to pass.

 

[minxnim]

well nick, i think you're right to a degree. and also, i think people will still have this weird sense like... 'oh it'll all turn out alright'. it's weird. i just reread 'native son'. i'm feeling all cynical.
also, i work with the policy department here, DIRECTLY on writing bills on this very issue. it's like this
them: well... what do we try now (after failure #400)
... call amanda and debra in legal! they'll think of something!

... so we dream up some newfangled angle.

shot down!
try again!
shot down again!
they call me again... so i scrape together another rigamarole.... shot down!
it's depressing. 2 years....

 

[xfer]

i think it's useful to refer to them as "gay unions", since marriage began as a religious institution. although i disagree, when a religious organization defines marriage as between a man and a woman, i think it's difficult to say they're wrong.

better to cast all that nonsense to the side, i think. fuck, why does the government recognize STRAIGHT marriages? everyone should be "civil unioned" by the government and then, if they so choose, "married" by their church, rather than having all these legal benefits and penalties associated with a RELIGIOUS institution.

 

[lizard]

I think the pope is irrelevant. after all he's against birth control and how many people pay attention to him?

 

[goatschool]

i can see that too, amanda. this will be some sort of black milestone for the let-it-slide mentality, if this does slide.

 

[minxnim]

i mean, most of what policymakers are looking for is just some kind of 'civil union' between any two people that attains the same legal benefits as marriage entirely.... not necessarily the same name... and it's always shot down.
SHIT. to be honest, we're just trying to get it so that a gay lover living with their partner for 20+ years has a right to go to their funeral w/o a last will and testament. and every jerk we send it to is like 'sorry! too close to the idea of gay marriage!' and they shove it off their desk.

 

[minxnim]

the pope is irrelevant like, except in south brooklyn and on my parents block at least. honestly.

 

[xfer]

the pope is hardly irrelevant. consider his role in the fall of the soviet union, which is one of the most important historical events EVER?

however, i think people (especially Americans) are willing to look at Pope stuff objectively and not accept everything he says at face value. nearly all american catholics use birth control, for example; most support married priests, and female priests; i think (hope) the gay-union issue is one of those issues, too.

 

[goatschool]

the pope is hardly irrelevant. consider his role in the fall of the soviet union, which is one of the most important historical events EVER?

however, i think people (especially Americans)

well we are talking about america, xpuer.

 

[xfer]

well if the pope hadn't waved his crozier eastward and TURNED BACK THE RED TIDE, we'd be speaking Sovietese right now!!

 

[xfer]

 

[goatschool]

 

[xfer]

haha the little kid seems to have the hint of a Hitler moustache!