Ukraine

[Genius Gone Insane]

I know we must have some commie sneapsters in Ukraine. What is really going on over there? I can't believe Obama isn't taking advantage of this in public. This would be a great opportunity for America to step in and shit on the Kremlin. Not sure why we are sitting back on this one. Obviously the CIA is involved. But why aren't we westernizing Ukraine when it is right there waiting?

Oh, right, forgot... because we need the commie threat in case the terrorist threat thing doesn't work out. Snowden, you bastard

 

[Loki Laufeyiarson]

How about: waiting to see if things can get worse there?
Or how about: Europe receives a lot of oil and gas from Russia via the Ukraine and Europe likes it cheap. Therefor western Europe pissing of Poetin is not something they want?

Dunno actually...

 

[Mutant]

But why aren't we westernizing Ukraine when it is right there waiting?

After Syria, Obama is seriously afraid of Putin kicking his ass geopolitically again.

commie

Both Russia and Ukraine are (heavily flawed) democracies.

 

[anotherpaul]

Well I would call both Russia and Ukraine mafiacracies.

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

After Syria, Obama is seriously afraid of Putin kicking his ass geopolitically again.



Both Russia and Ukraine are (heavily flawed) democracies.

Putin certainly got the upper hand in the media, but I think politically, Obama got exactly what he wanted: no CW, and no US military involvement.

This is an amazing video from the protests: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...9429071842&refsrc=http://t.co/rTdcGT9DK4&_rdr

I'm enjoying young people poking a stick in the eye of extortionary oligarchs from both countries, but the last time something like this happened, the people who came to power were just as corrupt as the previous government. But if a new government comes in, or if Yanukovych renegs on the Russia agreement and signs on to the EU and actually implements human rights/legal/economic reforms (unlikely, unfortunately), it could make things better in the long run. From a cost-benefit perspective, it seems like the gains accrued by entering the Russian customs union would be restricted to the economic and political elite, whereas at least an EU agreement, even if signed with a region that's in economic doldrums, would be spread out among the population if implemented faithfully.

 

[Max Morton]

I know we must have some commie sneapsters in Ukraine. What is really going on over there? I can't believe Obama isn't taking advantage of this in public. This would be a great opportunity for America to step in and shit on the Kremlin. Not sure why we are sitting back on this one. Obviously the CIA is involved. But why aren't we westernizing Ukraine when it is right there waiting?

My opinion: fuck both commies and Obama

And that's actually the opinion of most Ukrainians over here. There was more pro-American shit involved in 2004 during the orange revolution then now. Now most people went out on the streets after the blood has been spilled. When the peaceful demonstration was beaten, broken up and then beaten again. Old men, young girls, etc. We just don't want such government, no matter if they are with Russians or with Americans.
Fuck I hate politics.

 

[Max Morton]

Putin certainly got the upper hand in the media, but I think politically, Obama got exactly what he wanted: no CW, and no US military involvement.

This is an amazing video from the protests: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...9429071842&refsrc=http://t.co/rTdcGT9DK4&_rdr

I'm enjoying young people poking a stick in the eye of extortionary oligarchs from both countries, but the last time something like this happened, the people who came to power were just as corrupt as the previous government. But if a new government comes in, or if Yanukovych renegs on the Russia agreement and signs on to the EU and actually implements human rights/legal/economic reforms (unlikely, unfortunately), it could make things better in the long run. From a cost-benefit perspective, it seems like the gains accrued by entering the Russian customs union would be restricted to the economic and political elite, whereas at least an EU agreement, even if signed with a region that's in economic doldrums, would be spread out among the population if implemented faithfully.

Well, such things as "implementing human rights" and especially legal and economic reforms are only applicable via evolutionary means. He can't just apply them. All the system is too rotten. Beginning with the government and ending with the clerks in tax offices or police.
And actually that's why I don't believe we can integrate Europe just now. Sure thing most people dream about visa-free regime and stuff like that. But it ain't gonna happen until we evolve as a country.
Surely it doesn't mean that we shouldn't move towards more civilized economies.

 

[Max Morton]

Well I would call both Russia and Ukraine mafiacracies.

Too sad to admit. Fish rots from the head