Where's the Prog??

[Slipperman]

i know this is going to be an unpopular opinion but i feel the need to speak. i just don't think the guys are trying that hard anymore. they're supposed to be 'prog' but i don't hear a lot of prog in their music these days. at least not since Wounded. to me Wounded is not only their best CD but could be considered their Close to the Edge or Thick as a Brick (Missing is awesome ). why it's not more widely considered to be their best is beyond me. it is more complex than anything else they've done and as a result the arrangements were more varied. but it seems ever since then (with the possible exception of Time Lost), there's been a deliberate path taken towards shorter songs with more standard arrangements. i mean is it possible to write a song that has less than 2 Ott solos?? when i first listened to Blink, as soon as the first guitar solo came on i said to myself "here we go again" - it was that familiar. and some of them go on way too long.
now don't get me wrong, Enchants stuff is still 99% better than most of the crap out there. i just wish they'd move on and try something different. they obviously have the talent.
don't mean this as a flame to anybody (including the band). just stating my opinion.

 

[ProgMetalFan]

I don't think it's right of you to claim that Enchant isn't trying hard anymore. How do you know how much effort they put into their music? From what I hear, it seems that there was a ton of meticulous songcraft and emotions laid bare for "Blink of an Eye", which to me is an extremely fresh and organic record, my favorite Enchant record, and one of my favorite albums ever made.

 

[StocktontoMalone]

I have to agree with ProgMetalFan....Why do you feel the need to PIDGEON HOLE the band into one GENRE? They play what they want, and write the kind of songs they want....The media and the fans are the ones who shove them into one particular style....

I, for one, happen to think that the compositions are extremely complex, and the writing is top notch. And while you are entitled to your opinion, I can tell you that yours will most likely be the lone dissenting view...

I will, however, admit to only listening to the songs that really 'move' me....and there are less of these on Wounded, Time Lost, and Break...

Wounded - Below Zero, Fade 2 Grey
Break - Surrounded
Time Lost - Blind Sided, Interact

I believe that BOAN is their best effort to date, followed by BOTW, then J9D10....

As far as Doug's solos...I have no idea what you meant by your statement, but I can tell you that he is the first guitarist since Neal Schon to make me FEEL the music....

You have speed demons like Michael Angelo, and Vinnie Vincent, and Yngwie that want to burn the frets...then you have the FEELING guys like Doug, Neal, Satch etc.....

If you listen to the stuff that is passing for music today, the guitar solo is quickly becoming extinct.....it's cool to see at least one band who still considers it in their music.....

....I have stepped off my soapbox......

 

[StocktontoMalone]

I was re-reading my last post, and noticed I may have come across rudely - this was not my intention....

 

[ProgMetalFan]

Originally posted by StocktontoMalone
I have to agree with ProgMetalFan....Why do you feel the need to PIDGEON HOLE the band into one GENRE? They play what they want, and write the kind of songs they want....The media and the fans are the ones who shove them into one particular style....

I, for one, happen to think that the compositions are extremely complex, and the writing is top notch. And while you are entitled to your opinion, I can tell you that yours will most likely be the lone dissenting view...

I will, however, admit to only listening to the songs that really 'move' me....and there are less of these on Wounded, Time Lost, and Break...

Wounded - Below Zero, Fade 2 Grey
Break - Surrounded
Time Lost - Blind Sided, Interact

I believe that BOAN is their best effort to date, followed by BOTW, then J9D10....

As far as Doug's solos...I have no idea what you meant by your statement, but I can tell you that he is the first guitarist since Neal Schon to make me FEEL the music....

You have speed demons like Michael Angelo, and Vinnie Vincent, and Yngwie that want to burn the frets...then you have the FEELING guys like Doug, Neal, Satch etc.....

If you listen to the stuff that is passing for music today, the guitar solo is quickly becoming extinct.....it's cool to see at least one band who still considers it in their music.....

....I have stepped off my soapbox......

Oh yes, Doug Ott's guitar solos on "Blink of an Eye" are incredible. He gets "ProgMetalFan's Guitar Performance of 2002" award! (Not that that counts for much! ) I think he can Burn the frets and play with emotion... he is extremely versatile and his guitar solos move me... they're quite memorable... It's as if his guitar is singing...

 

[jjmannford]

Just because they are not 'progging' out in your mind, doesnt mean they are not trying hard. They are influenced by many bands and styles of music, so they are not going to be a classic prog Genesis, prog metal DT, or neoprog Marillion clone. I like Spock's Beard Snow, but I feel that they were trying way too hard to 'Prog' out in some songs, and it sounds bad. But just my opinion.

Yes, Enchant's music is very heavy on the gtr solos, but they are incredible IMHO. I agree ProgMetalFan, Doug's style and taste reminds me of the great Neal Schon. Even though some Journey songs were a bit light for my taste, Neal would always insert that awesome emotionally drenched solo. With Enchant, I get an awesome song and the awesome gtr solo (or two ). Combination =

It is ok if you find Enchant's new direction with BOAE not to your liking, but they are trying hard.


happy new year everyone,
jim

 

[Slipperman]

perhaps i should clarify some things..
first off, "not trying very hard" - unfortunate choice of words. my only point was i think they should challenge themselves a little more musically. Wounded was only their second album and their best IMO but their music has only gotten simpler since.

as far as Dougs solos, i wasn't in any way rapping his talent. but there always seems to be at least 2 solos in every song and always in the same place. this goes back to my previous point about arrangements. the structure of the songs these days seem to always follow some variation of verse, chorus, verse, bridge, solo, chorus, solo. this is what i meant by "it was that familiar". i was referring the placement of the solo not the solo itself or the quality thereof. and some of them do go on too long.

but again, in case i didn't make it clear, i still like their stuff and Blink is my second favorite album.

 

[ebass]

Slipperman

The fact you recognize the "not trying as hard" comment as not being the best choice of words is pretty cool and you obviously are not trying to rip us.

We welcome you voicing your opinion and respect it. I for one
do not take your post as flaming anyone. I think I understand your question and what you mean here. There is no offense taken at all.

I will do my best to address your question.

I think you are speaking more of the arrangments than anything else to be honest. But I think BOTW and Time Lost were actually the more complex or for lack of a better word prog. Wounded actually was a big time Guitar solo disc, and heavier than the others.

I might beg to differ on your take with that but we all see it differant, thats actually the beauty of it all here with our music. Under the Sun and New Moon were actually supposed to be on that disc so tat would really change it all wouldn,t it?

Break went a totally differant direction for other reasons mainy because the band was actually heading away from the more progressive or complexity with the music. The current members now don,t feel that way about it.

I love J9 or D10 personally and it may be my all time favorite disc? or close? And I am speaking as a fan. It was amazing songwriting in my opinion. But once again not really a progressive direction for other reasons, "band members" but remember just because there are not all these comlpex arrangments it doesn,t mean it isn,t progressive. Again I know what you where asking however.

Hey so you know we are working hard and always do, and we always try or best for whatever we are trying to accomplish.

Blink of an Eye was actually in many peoples opinion a really good balance of the more complex material and the the hooks needed to make the music a song. And to us that will always be the most important thing, the way the song as a whole makes us feel. The emotion of it! Not the complexity? If the piece calls for that then thats the direction it might go. Believe me Under Fire is complex, along with Seeds of Hate, and Progosis. And the solo section in My Ever After is insane.

I am really not sure what PROG is to be honest? for many it is a four letter word and trust me, that comes from the biggest in the business in this GENRE. I know I have spoken with many of them. You would be surprised to know how much some of the musicians in this GENRE feel about it.

Also keep in mind we have had a lot of transition in the band and there are always 5 differant opinions of which direction to go. So that has played a part as well.

We do what we do, it comes from the heart and is all about the song first. If it happens to be a bit more detailed or complex thats where it will go? you can,t really plan that? You could but then wouldn,t it be contrived. I think a lot of the more progressive bands are actually really boring just wanking away showboating their chops and not really making anything close to a song that might effect the way one feels. I love some of it and actually have many good friends that are into that but it gets old. We really got a first hand look at Nearfest, some of the acts where really interesting and some where really aweful, almost comical. To challenge yourself musically is one thing but to just do it for the sake of being that four letter word is another. I think everyone we know from Marillion to Dream Theater might agree.

It is all about the balance for us and we continue to try and master that! If we were to lean to far in either direction it might not work for us.

Hey we appreciate your feedback, really and I for one take note of some of the points made, or raised by this post. Never fear however because we are challenging not only our chops and complexity with the music again but are also trying to get even better at the songwriting, Even if it just arrangements or structure.

I think you might be even more surprised by our next there is no definate direction, and it probably wont be as familier, because every disc is differant.

Hey thanks again for your input, I hope I was helpful to not only you but anyone else that may be wondering where the prog is?

Thanks for the high praise of BOAE being your second favorite disc of the year! Thats pretty cool. I think I have to go with Rush for my favorite, they are still amazing.

Peace Out

 

[KorgX3]

Enchant? Not prog?

The beauty of Enchant is that Enchant is prog without trying to sound prog. One thing that bugs me about alot of prog bands nowdays is that they actually make an obvious attempt to sound offbeat, and it comes off sounding forced and pretentious.

When Enchant wants to sound proggy, well, it hits so subtly and is so interwoven with the music that I don't even catch it unless I pay attention. I >love< that.

Enchant has a LOT more personality than most other prog bands, imo. Everything about Enchant's music is genuine. They don't musically bullshit you. They know they're a talented group of guys, but they don't feel the need to brag. Everything is laid bare and there are no attempts to pepper the songs with unnecessary crap. Everything flows together, fits the song, etc. Nope. This is the reason Enchant remains one of my favorite bands.

 

[ebass]

Korg

I couldn,t have said in any better? Thanks much, especially for just telling it how you see it, and how it is! You nailed it my friend!

We do what we do and are just regular guys lucky enough to be able to do this and have people like you appreciate it for what it is! GENUINE!

you rule!