5150 vs 5150 II & 2 Channel Dual Rectifier vs 3 Channel

silverwulf

silverwulf

Ghost in the Machine
Mar 6, 2002
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For all the old and new models of amps, everyone seems to have their own preference. I was wondering what everyone's opinion of the following amps are:

5150 (EVH or Signature) vs. 5150 II


Mesa Dual Rectifier (2 Channel) vs Mesa Dual Rectifier (3 Channel)


Andy, I know you've worked with various artists using all of those amps before. Have you noticed any differences in any particular models sounding better than the other?
 
well I've recorded with a 5150 mark1 and the 5150 mark2, as well as a mesa boogie solo rectifier(2 channel) and a mesa mark4.

Imho the amps that sound the best recorded are the mark4 and the 5150 mark1, these amps just have a really nice upper mid-range bite to them that just seems to record really well.

If I couldn't use either of those amps I'd use the 5150mark2.

All can be dialed in to sound great though, especially with a tube screamer ;)

peace

james
 
When we did the second Machine Head album, we were swearing by the early 5150 without the signature, but I've had both since, including Bill Steers old one, which I sold cause it didn't sound as good as the signature so..... I don't think there's really any difference between those, more of a tube issue there.
The 5150 II doesn't seem as well made, seen at least 2 of these break down, and they seem a little fizzy.
I have a Dual Rectifier thats pretty cool, we used it on Nevermore and Kreator. It's an older rack mount one, I've tried the newer one, Boogie gave us one to try out when we did Exodus, but for some reason it sounded very average. Though we were in modded Marshall land at the time so.....
One thing I've just bought here in Germany is the Maxon OD 820 Overdrive Pro, which is their re issue tube screamer, it sounds great, very, very close to the original TS 808, and actually better than Ibanez re issue 808, we have 5 different Tube screamers here at the moment. Modded TS9, 2 Originals, Maxon and Ibanez re issue, and the Maxon stands up to the best of the originals.
 
Hey Andy, I pretty much share the same opinion as you on the 5150's and Dual Rectifier's.

I've owned about 7 Dual Rectifier's myself over time, and my bandmates have had another 6-8 that we've gotten to try extensively. Of those, the 2 channel models seemed to sound the best, and the older, original 2 channels (from '92 - '94) sounded the best of those. Thos eare the ones with the smaller Mesa logos on front, a different transformer I believe, etc. My current one is an original from '94 in the reverse black/chrome color scheme:

94RECTO2.JPG



None of the Recto's really shined until you pushed the volume up a bit, but these older models seem to retain a great top end bite and tight low end crunch that the newer ones don't have.

For those 5150's, I'm about the same way. My 5150 II had a lot fizzier of a gain structure than the my EVH head. The clean channel was improved a bit, but I didn't care for the overdrive as much. I'll have to check out those Maxon Tube Screamers. I've heard great things about them, but I haven't tried one yet.

What tubes do you prefer in your Recto? I recently tried JJ/Tesla's in my Recto and it really cleaned up the amp a lot. I used a high gain JJ ECC83 S in the V1-V3 slots, a standard in V4, and a balanced on in V5. The cleans went from being dull and dry to having a nice top end and sparkle to them, and I like to use EMG's for my cleans. I've still got some Sovtek 5881's in the power section I think.
 
I always use the softek or svetlana tubes, I've got a good contact for them near by, though I still have stock boogie tubes in my rectifier.

I'm not 100% with my rectifier, I've used some older ones (mines from 99 I think) that sounded better. + mine has a red light not blue!!, I was so bummed out by that when I got it, the blue makes all the difference.
Talking about Carcass, you know the Heartworks gtr sound was a 5150 mixed with a 12 wt marshall practice amp!....thats straight from Mr Richardson.
 
I've got Sovtek's loaded in my Recto right now that sound pretty good.

For those blue lights, they used to come standard back in the early issues before they went to red. If you want a blue light, you can buy one of the Fender jewels that should be a direct fit. I've always liked the blue lights too...they have blue, green, purple, etc:

http://www.fenderusa.com/store/enter.php?product=0990949000

They only cost something like $7 (USD), but I've seen them sell on other sites for like $3 or so.

I used to have a '99 Recto that sounded killer, too. I think that was my only 2 channel I never bought used.
 
Andy Sneap said:
I always use the softek or svetlana tubes, I've got a good contact for them near by, though I still have stock boogie tubes in my rectifier.

I'm not 100% with my rectifier, I've used some older ones (mines from 99 I think) that sounded better. + mine has a red light not blue!!, I was so bummed out by that when I got it, the blue makes all the difference.
Talking about Carcass, you know the Heartworks gtr sound was a 5150 mixed with a 12 wt marshall practice amp!....thats straight from Mr Richardson.
Click to expand...
Mixed as in mixed over the marshall sound? :tickled:
 
Heartwork is a wonderful album, in all aspects: songs, playing and production. Mr Richardson really made Carcass sound the way they should.
What's he up to these days? The only things I heard (recently) were the FFAF and machine head stuff.
 
I've never been a fan of the 5150 range. I just think it's too fuzzy overall and lack responsiveness. But that's just a matter of taste of course. ENGL amps are way better in every category I think.

The three channel rectifiers sound way inferior to the two channel models. They have implemented so many filters in the signal chain with the 3channel versions that all you're left with at the end is distorted distorsion more or less and that's why it sounds so extremely mushy with hardly any definition at all and spongy bass response. The filters (EQ) doesn't really work properly 'cause the signal is actually clipping pretty hard in the preamp section.

This can be fixed by actually clearing up the signal chain. I had mine modified and now it sounds way closer to the 2 channel versions with way better bass definition and bite. The filters work properly now too :headbang:
 
yeah I've heard some wonderful clips on the net of various engl amps,

are there any professionally recorded albums using engls for all the rhythm parts?

I'm really hanging out for a savage120 or a powerball, they are the absolute 'shit' for all types of metal apparently.

anyone here own one?
 
There are many records out there using ENGL amps. I own a Savage120 and the Fireball amp. I'd recommend the Fireball if it's only brutal distorsion you're after. It's THE amp if you play a lot of busy riffs with a lot of muting 'cause it's very very quick dynamically. This makes it wonderful for chunky rythms but it totally sucks for lead playing. The Savage 120 is much more allround in terms of distorsion and genre. Great rythm and superb lead amp.
 
Odd, Ive tried the Engl powerball and really didn't like it, felt almost like I was playing through a Pod, very fake distortion, no proper response, One of those amps where it would hide the fact you wernt playing accurate....know what I mean??.

I think the Savage 120 is a better amp from all accounts though I've not tried one.
 
The Rectifier sounds for most guitar players great. With the 5150 you really have to work hard to get a good sound! Not al players can! And have a guitar with good pickups. 80% of my recordings I do with the Boogie. It has that "ïnstant" sound that most guitarists like.
 
The ENGL amps really do have quite different sonic signatures. I've never tried the Powerball but I've never heard anyone having anything positive too say about it. Maybe it's just too high-tech or something. The Savage 120 and Fireball amps are definitely worth a look at though, and the Richie Blackmore head is reported to sound very good too.

The clean sounds in the ENGL amps are very average to my ears. They produce a great crunch sound with lots of attack and dynamics though. The Savage 120 has some very nice "mid" features on the lead channel and very good filters overall. Very balanced amp that produce a lot of sounds. Distorsion wise, the Fireball seems to glue everything together a bit better. Tighter distorsion than the 120 but much less versatile.

If I remember correctly... (correct me if I'm wrong ;))

Dimmu Borgir - Puritanical Euphoric Misantrophia
Studio Fredman, Fredrik Nordström

... Is mostly Savage 120?

The later "Carnal Forge" albums produced in Studio Underground is mostly ENGL Fireball.. could be some 120 there too, but I think it's the Fireball amp for rythm.
 
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I do not like 5150s.
Anyone have any thoughts on Diezel?
 
Wages of Sin is either the Savage 120 or the Blackmore model + 2 tracks of 5150. The Engl tracks sounded quite clean but good on that so I'm guessing RB model
 
yeah the powerball does eem to have almost pod-ish type quality to it.
I quess for some people who are into they're modern 'math' metal that could go in the amps favour.

I was thinking about the powerball but it really doesn't sound as tight or as smooth as my mesa mark IV, so I quess I'll give it a miss.

From what I understand the engl rb is the really smooth but tight engl amp akin to perhaps a mesa mark2c+ type voicing but with more gain .The powerball is the mega modern futuristic one, and the savage120 is the more standard mesa dual/5150 type hard rock/metal amp.

I used to own a Diezel herbert and was totally unimpressed, sure it was very reponsive dynamics wise, and everything worked extremely well (tone controls etc) but for metal it just didn't cut it, the voicing just seemed a bit impractical in recording and band situations. I returned it and got a mesa mark4 and kitted my guitars out with emg's and have had some great results.

Mesa just sit well with the average person/ within a mix. The dual recto's are not my favourite amp for tight palm-muted type playing but as far as slower stuff, and open power chords it's hard to not get a pretty decent sound :)

any direct links to mp3's of the fireball in action I'm intriqued :D
 
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