Israel
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monoxide_child
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not america's problem
i hate to be so blunt, but there's really no possible "endgame" over there
there's definately going to be lots of violence going on over there every single fucking day for the rest of eternity no matter what the fuck america or any other country does
the way i see it, america just needs to quickly pull out completely and get to a point where the violence over there doesn't affect america anymore
does anyone remember all of those "african genocides" that they kept talking about on law and order??? none of those involved the deaths of any americans, and you know why not??? because they all happened durring clinton's administration and clinton flat-out-said "it's not america's problem"
we need to do that again
we need to find a way to make a situation where the violence over there doesn't affect us and then just fucking leave already
i hate to be so blunt, but there's really no possible "endgame" over there
there's definately going to be lots of violence going on over there every single fucking day for the rest of eternity no matter what the fuck america or any other country does
the way i see it, america just needs to quickly pull out completely and get to a point where the violence over there doesn't affect america anymore
does anyone remember all of those "african genocides" that they kept talking about on law and order??? none of those involved the deaths of any americans, and you know why not??? because they all happened durring clinton's administration and clinton flat-out-said "it's not america's problem"
we need to do that again
we need to find a way to make a situation where the violence over there doesn't affect us and then just fucking leave already
I agree, I feel like once you have a balanced knowledge regarding the history and movement of people in the Middle East, everything becomes a stalemate. Same thing with Africa. However, I will argue that a significant portion of such issues would not be occurring in the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa today if European imperialists had been more sensitive to cultural and tribal boundaries (i.e. the Kurds should have been given their own state rather than lumping them into Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey). The whole situation with the Kurds is very similar to the Hmong in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam Era. Even now, there are still major issues regarding their safety.
Reason why I ask this is Israeli Independence Day was last week, although Israel, while it touches on similar themes of cultural negligence on the part of Britain, is much more complicated.
monoxide_child
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from an american's point of view it's not really complicated at all
violence over there will go on forever no matter what the fuck america does
and so
america needs to leave
With that, I agree though. Our intervention isn't really going to do anything in the long term, because we are so foreign to the issues there.
monoxide_child
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the issue going on there is just simply endless violence, there is nothing that any country could ever possibly do that will ever get rid of the violence in that part of the world, endless violence for eternity in the middle east is inevitable and unchangeable
vikk
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That is the first mistake everyone does "the war is raging from a long time ago and it will keep like that"
this is false, up to WWI, both Palestines and Jews lived peacefully.
Ehhh, shit went down in Jesus' time and post Jesus' time. At one point, the Jews were exiled to Babylon.
I'm going to watch this in the morning tomorrow. I wants to gets a good discussion going, but I need sleep. Then, we discuss!!
monoxide_child
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there was a war going on in the middle east the day before 9/11, THAT war was not america's bussiness and it's that war that will keep going on after america's prescence in the middle east is completely totally gone
UccelloXNtrick
n3var n00b
the Jews were exiled by the Babylonian empire centuries before Islam even existed. They were returned to Israel by the Persian Empire and remained there. I don't remember what happened to the Jews after the Romans retaliated against their uprising. That could be when they were scattered.
Le fuuuuu, you are right, Islam didn't come around till the 600AD
Sorry about that, history derp.And yeah, it was the Romans who destroyed the Second Temple.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_captivity
Also this is pretty cool: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic–Jewish_relations
The Qur'an says that all righteous Jews and Christians are promised nearness to God in Heaven:
Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Qur'an, sura 2 (Al-Baqarah), ayat 62[29]
[1]
Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book (the Jews and Christians) are a portion that stand (for the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.
They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works. They are in the ranks of the righteous.
Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knoweth well those that do right.
Qur'an, sura 3 (Al-Imran), ayat 113-115[30]
[2]
And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book (the Jews and Christians), those who believe in God, in the revelation given to you, and in the revelation given to them, bowing in humility to God: They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account.
Qur'an, sura 3 (Al-Imran), ayat 199[31]
[3]
monoxide_child
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this is what americans keep forgetting
the violence over there isn't going to stop because of anything america will ever do
executing Sadam Husein, assassinating Osama Bin Laden, neither of these things resulted in stopping the violence
the never was any moment where america could have stoped the violence over there
and there's never going to be an "endgame" when the violence over there finnally stops, it will be after everyone reading this post has already died of old age
Werckmeister Harmonies
Member
The situation in Israel/Palestine is a bloody trap for both nationalities. A single state solution would probably be the best option but unfortunately there isn´t a "political will" for that at the moment. I´m not saying it´s an "easy" solution, but there don´t seem to be any better alternatives both parties can agree on. Basically Hamas and the leadership of Fatah have to be destroyed, reduced to ashes and dust, and some drastic change of policy has to occur in Israel. The Israeli army is selling weapons to Hamas, it´s in boths interest since Hamas only benefits from the status quo. No one would support those disgusting zealots if it wasn´t for the desparate living conditions of many Palestinians. My point is there are politically powerful groups benefiting from the situation like it is now and the power has to be taken away from them before any peaceful solution is a realistic possibility.
monoxide_child
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this^^^
is NOT america's problem
THOUSANDS of people were brutally slaughtered in the middle east THE DAY BEFORE 9/11
america went over there and killed the man responsible for 9/11
our work over there is done
america needs to leave
the shit that was going on in the middle east the day before 9/11, that shit's not america's problem and america shouldn't be involved in dealing with it
vikk
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seriously man, go read a bit before writing stuff down. There was war before 9/11 indeed, but since WWII Israel is being massive funded by the United States including, guns, bombs, missiles, etc.
Palestine is at war against Israel, but it's not a fair war, Palestinians are poor, while they fight with sticks and stones, Israel fights with intercontinental missiles. That is the reason why the Palestinians have so much rage. United States made things uneven.
The reason why 9/11 happened, it was not because they hated your freedom as you might have heard on Fox News, it was because United States is the reason why Israel got such power.
Watch the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yyVy5XHjuGI
Israel wouldn't be what they were now, if it wasn't for United States. So it is your problem.
monoxide_child
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there shouldn't be any "half-way done" military operation here, since america has decided to "massively fund" Isreal's military power, by giving them "guns bombs missles"
then what we really need to do is give Isreal the nuclear ability to completely totally instantly obliterate all of Isreal's enemies, once that objective is accomplished, then america can go about doing thing that result in american deaths
the number of american's that were killed in the middle east since 9/11 is several times the total population of Isreal, what the hell are we dying for when we could win this war by dropping a few nuclear bombs???
Israel is a modern, developed society. Palestine is a backward, disfunctional society, taught to hate the infidel. Maybe a lot of the hatred toward America is based on US involvement in the Middle East, but the main goal of Islam is to take over the world. They are having some success in Europe already.
