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amarshism
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JakeAC5253
Frozen Sun Audio
- Nov 19, 2010
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According to a friend of mine, Opeth tracked the entirety of Orchid on an old VHS recorder. Cheap and effective. I've always wanted to try that.
amarshism
Member
hurdy
Sup
You could get a copy of an old song and put it through an frequency analyser to get a slight idea of EQ settings to try
I think the idea of song production back then was to be able to play it thru a shitty little car speaker that couldnt handle fuck all bass frequencies
So you could try and cut alot of low end out to make it tinny sounding
Recordings would of taken place with minimal mics as amarshism has mentioned
but also, a lot of songs would of been recorded with the band playing in the same room going thru a couple mics only
This means you need to make the mix by distance from the mics and dynamics (how loud) ie drums at the far back, vocals closest to the mics, guitar to one side, bass to the other
So this old school process could be emulated with a nice reverb and/or delay to create the illusion of distance ie drums more wet, vocals more dry etc
It all depends on how extreme you want to go about it i guess
I think the idea of song production back then was to be able to play it thru a shitty little car speaker that couldnt handle fuck all bass frequencies
So you could try and cut alot of low end out to make it tinny sounding
Recordings would of taken place with minimal mics as amarshism has mentioned
but also, a lot of songs would of been recorded with the band playing in the same room going thru a couple mics only
This means you need to make the mix by distance from the mics and dynamics (how loud) ie drums at the far back, vocals closest to the mics, guitar to one side, bass to the other
So this old school process could be emulated with a nice reverb and/or delay to create the illusion of distance ie drums more wet, vocals more dry etc
It all depends on how extreme you want to go about it i guess
egan.
daylightdies.com
50's it would be a great room and a mono mic moving things in and out for balance. I think I'd do a stereo pair out in front of the drums or maybe as high overheads. I think kick and snare mics as safeties are a good idea. I'd go for ribbons and big old tube LDC's for everything.
A shitty old tape machine would be a good addition.
A shitty old tape machine would be a good addition.
Uros
Sonic Incision
Make sure to lp guitars around 2.5k-3k. 
No seriously, they will sound really lo-fi, just use a gentle slope, like 6dB per octave. The recorderman is a good idea for this. Oh, and lots of saturation. Saturate, saturate, saturate.
But the key for this sound is not so much in tools, but rather the way it's recorded. In Motown they used to record the whole band (no band member wore headphones for monitoring) at once, just without vocals. Only the vocals would get to be overdubbed. So lots of bleed and band feel. That's what I've read from Bob Olhsson anyway, one of the guys responsible for making a lot of those records.
No seriously, they will sound really lo-fi, just use a gentle slope, like 6dB per octave. The recorderman is a good idea for this. Oh, and lots of saturation. Saturate, saturate, saturate.
But the key for this sound is not so much in tools, but rather the way it's recorded. In Motown they used to record the whole band (no band member wore headphones for monitoring) at once, just without vocals. Only the vocals would get to be overdubbed. So lots of bleed and band feel. That's what I've read from Bob Olhsson anyway, one of the guys responsible for making a lot of those records.
mva801
Member
- Nov 18, 2009
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Ha ha ha... It was probably an ADAT machine dude... They were widely used everywhere before computers and DAW's were powerful enough. Bit different from your standard VHS video recorder though...
As far as the op goes, def try to get some older style ribbon mics in the mix, and maybe try tracking the whole thing live?
JakeAC5253
Frozen Sun Audio
- Nov 19, 2010
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Actually, just got an idea to possibly overcome the one guy doing all parts = less glue/vintage mojo dilemma. After tracking everything and getting a rough mix down you could crank the monitors and mic the control room itself. That might be a neat way to grit it up even if all you have is modern equipment.
mva801
Member
- Nov 18, 2009
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Well a lot of that kinda stuff is just all about the vibe of the musicians. Funny that example you posted was actually recorded in the mid nineties.... (high hopes is a great song off that record tho. Nightwish do an amazing cover of it)
You should be able to get close by using the right equipment as far as guitar, amps and drums go. I'd tune drums a smidge higher and deader than normal, use coated heads on everything (kick included) and mic them more sparingly, like you said. Guitars seemed like they used more on-board reverb back then. Don't go overboard with precision eq'ing - leave things sounding warmer, more natural, as in no huge boost at 8k on the kick, and don't suck out everything around 200hz. let it sound more like it does in the room.
Sounds like a fun experiment...
You should be able to get close by using the right equipment as far as guitar, amps and drums go. I'd tune drums a smidge higher and deader than normal, use coated heads on everything (kick included) and mic them more sparingly, like you said. Guitars seemed like they used more on-board reverb back then. Don't go overboard with precision eq'ing - leave things sounding warmer, more natural, as in no huge boost at 8k on the kick, and don't suck out everything around 200hz. let it sound more like it does in the room.
Sounds like a fun experiment...
AudioPhile777
Mathew Cohen
Lots of noise. One take for everything. Slap back delays. "Record noise". Lo-Fi plugins. hp/lp @ 300/5k.
Also VCC. VCC on EVERYTHING. Also don't squish it. Let everything breathe. Don't use too much compression...
Those would be my initial starting points for what you're describing.
Also VCC. VCC on EVERYTHING. Also don't squish it. Let everything breathe. Don't use too much compression...
Those would be my initial starting points for what you're describing.
Firaxis
Member
If you want big bass point everything towards the drum kit! That's what they used to do in the early reggae records.
Firaxis
Member
ah sorry I missed that bit! Maybe you could get some room vibe by recording his vocals in the same room as the monitors to get some bleed? Clutching at straws here
edit: I think the old records have a vibe about them like others have said, room and timing come into it a lot, how a drummer speeds up and slows down gives "feel" i suppose. If you aren't programming the drums maybe you could try and get them done without a click?
edit: I think the old records have a vibe about them like others have said, room and timing come into it a lot, how a drummer speeds up and slows down gives "feel" i suppose. If you aren't programming the drums maybe you could try and get them done without a click?
Nimvi
Member
Don't know if anyone mentioned it yet, but another very typical thing that was done on bands in those days was the hardpanning (either full left, center, or full right) of complete elements. For example drums all fully left, bass fully right, guitar in center with some warbly effects. Should give it a typical oldskool vibe right away. If you have some analog weird guitar pedals lying around, this will be the time to pull them out! And not just for guitars.
Another vote for Izotope Vinyl. Used it on a project once where the client wanted the ending of a song to sound like it was played on a slightly skipping gramophone. Used Vinyl on a separate track parallel style, and compressed and hp/lp it together with the track, and everything glued together in a pretty convincing way. He loved it.
Also, you could use VCC RC tube on everything, cause that one is supposed to sound like an old tube console.
Use a tape plugin with some good wow & flutter and turn up that noise! If you guys don't have one yet, I recommend Toneboosters Reelbus ( http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-reelbus/ ) which costs a ridiculous 10 euros.... but don't let that fool you. It works perfectly fine. It also has an "old and rusty" algorithm which may be suited to the project. Not related to the guy, but I support great plugins for awesome prices.
+1 on putting up a roommic and playing back everything to it. Should add some nice vibes! On a sidenote, cheap ribbonmics aren't actually as bad as one would think. Depending on how serious this project is, usable ribbons can be had for less than a 100 euros. Just make sure to check the ribbon for slack if you get one.
For example, I use one of these as a roommic when going for vibes every now and then and it has worked pretty well so far. http://www.thomann.de/nl/the_tbone_rm700.htm
And also +1 on using tons of colour comps and EQ. Especially since the recording equipment isn't vintage at all, it will probably need some compensation.
Another vote for Izotope Vinyl. Used it on a project once where the client wanted the ending of a song to sound like it was played on a slightly skipping gramophone. Used Vinyl on a separate track parallel style, and compressed and hp/lp it together with the track, and everything glued together in a pretty convincing way. He loved it.
Also, you could use VCC RC tube on everything, cause that one is supposed to sound like an old tube console.
Use a tape plugin with some good wow & flutter and turn up that noise! If you guys don't have one yet, I recommend Toneboosters Reelbus ( http://www.toneboosters.com/tb-reelbus/ ) which costs a ridiculous 10 euros.... but don't let that fool you. It works perfectly fine. It also has an "old and rusty" algorithm which may be suited to the project. Not related to the guy, but I support great plugins for awesome prices.
+1 on putting up a roommic and playing back everything to it. Should add some nice vibes! On a sidenote, cheap ribbonmics aren't actually as bad as one would think. Depending on how serious this project is, usable ribbons can be had for less than a 100 euros. Just make sure to check the ribbon for slack if you get one.
For example, I use one of these as a roommic when going for vibes every now and then and it has worked pretty well so far. http://www.thomann.de/nl/the_tbone_rm700.htm
And also +1 on using tons of colour comps and EQ. Especially since the recording equipment isn't vintage at all, it will probably need some compensation.
Astronomy Domine? That was written by their old guitarist Syd Barrett and recorded in 67, not the mid-nineties. Sick song. The version that Mike posted in his first post is actually a live recording.
The album cover in the video is from their 1994 record "The Division Bell" though, so I bet that's where the confusion came from.
Shinozoku
Senior Memory
Yeah so from listening to some examples he has given me. Basically mono drums that are just basically straight raw. Guitars and vocals with an almost bathroom style reverb going on.
I don't even know where to begin with a guitar tone like that. Probably singles, a compressor in the chain perhaps. Old Fender or Vox amp and a 2x10 or something like that would be in order.
For guitar tones, trace the lineage of your amps back to see what came from what. Get a lower gain Plexi, Bassman, or even a Pignose to try. Use ribbon mics. As for pickups, there's this company I aw reviewed in the most recent Guitar World that makes totally noiseles P-90 style pickup that fit humbucker guitars. Trying to find the issue to find the name.
Also, for drums, take off the bottom heads on the toms.
Talk about the bass guitar made me think.... get two speakers for the bass amp, a 10" and a 15" or bigger. Mic both, record both, then go through and take the mids out of the small speaker signal, and the lows out of the big speakers signal and blend them. See if that gives you a cooler, oldschool vibe with modern micing/processing techniques.
Found the pickups! http://www.mullinaxguitars.com/
Sloan
Sounds like shit!
