Active Electronics Without Batteries?

[Noumenon]

well, that wasn't my intention.

 

[Executioner213]

Ok, then

 

[Kazrog]

I'm still fine with having batteries in my guitars.

 

[Noumenon]

Hehe so am I for the moment and probobly will continue to be, can't decide wether to go wireless or not.

 

[egan.]

well uh, mod that unit to take a 9v power supply instead of a battery and you have a phantom powered unit for your guitar. not through the amp though. but still...

EBS bass heads provide phantom power.

 

[Noumenon]

yeah, but wasn't that intended for the ebs pedals?

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

whatever it's for, it's a step in the right direction!

 

[Lowberg]

And then when you dont have that box your guitar pickups wont work lolz

 

[JBroll]

I'll be happy the day they decide to make guitars (with active electronics) use phantom power, and all you'd have to use is trs cables instead of line cables. Cool in theory, but I don't think they will jump on it for a while. It would be an industry jump...all amps would have to have it included, and people would have to get thiers modded if it were older than the newer ones carrying it.

Nice theory, huh?

Yes, and a nice practice as soon as guitarists learn a little more electronics than "Durm, does the light off mean new battery time?" and "So... I need to plug it in for it to work?" - you can do it with a stereo input jack and stereo guitar cable. You have a small transformer either at the source or in the guitar to get the voltage required, use the ring of a stereo cable to carry the charge, and use the same ground as the rest of the electronics.

It's really not that bloody hard to figure these things out... all it takes is a little desire to actually know something and then figure it out... or worst case scenario I've cleaned my inbox out and you can bug me all you want over it... am I the only one who doesn't enjoy pretending to be helpless and confused about basic electronics over the internet?

Jeff

 

[Norris-wf]

quick question for you JBroll, when sending two signals through the one cable is there any deterioration or sound loss having an audio and a voltage signal running parallel with each other. I know the voltage being used would only be a DC voltage but does this have any effect on the signal that is being sent back, i know thats how the phantom power works too and there doesnt seem to be any losses, just wanted to ask you cos you know your shit with electronics man
cheers
Sean

 

[JBroll]

Shouldn't be any with a proper cable. If you've ever dealt with stereo cables, that's the same thing - two different things running down the same cable next to each other. Maybe shitty cables with holes in them will be a problem but I see no reason why a properly implemented phantom power system would be either problematic or above the heads of anyone on this forum.

Jeff

 

[Norris-wf]

Ah fair enough, I was really just always wondering how you can send two independent signals down 3 wires, which is basically a stereo cable, and they cause no conflict. I know what your talking about there, just asking if you knew how one of these cables can allow a signal through both ways syncronously? is it based on something like the skin effect where the larger of the currents will flow on the outside of the wire and the weaker current inside this ring?

 

[deanbailey]

Hmm...Why not just get rechargeable batteries? I have two rechargeable 9v's in my guitar and one in my TS, and i recharge 'em every month.

 

[Where She Wept]

Ah fair enough, I was really just always wondering how you can send two independent signals down 3 wires, which is basically a stereo cable, and they cause no conflict. I know what your talking about there, just asking if you knew how one of these cables can allow a signal through both ways syncronously? is it based on something like the skin effect where the larger of the currents will flow on the outside of the wire and the weaker current inside this ring?

Phantom power works like this:
The audio signal is AC, or alternating current. the polarity of the signal changes directions every 180 deg, and Phantom power is DC or direct current, which has a fixed polarity and doesnt change. the AC signal rides on top of the dc signal and is separated by caps which pass the AC and block the DC.

in a 3 wire setup, the audio and power share a common ground then you have the +audio and +batt as the other 2 wires

 

[JBroll]

I'd probably recommend, since we only have a mono signal from the guitar, a stereo cable to be used with a shared ground and a single 'hot' for the audio and the juice each.

EDIT: He covered it, we'd be using the second thing he explained. Misread. END EDIT

Jeff

 

[Norris-wf]

Where She Wept, Ah yes, that makes sense. I'm studying electronic/electrical engineering for the past two and a half years so I've covered all this in theory, but they never really mention when its ever used, that would be an example so. cheers for clearing that up Where She Wept and JBroll, have ye studied this in college or somewhere else that ye know so much detail about these things?

 

[xmarcelx]

Ah fair enough, I was really just always wondering how you can send two independent signals down 3 wires, which is basically a stereo cable, and they cause no conflict. I know what your talking about there, just asking if you knew how one of these cables can allow a signal through both ways syncronously? is it based on something like the skin effect where the larger of the currents will flow on the outside of the wire and the weaker current inside this ring?

I like the theory with the skin effect!

If I understand corectly: The idea is that in a active guitar there is a stereo jack used for switching (on if you insert a mono jack) and instead of the switch you use it as the supply... the only thing you have to change on a working setup is to short the battery clip inside the guitar... everthing else is already "implented"

I had the same idea, but was to lazy to build it

 

[Norris-wf]

yup, its a good theory about active leads for guitar, but is it worth it? it would be handy to have a battery indicator on the guitars tho, our bassist checked his entire set up the other day when his signal cut out before he finally cheked the battery and it was flat, damn the no indication!

 

[JBroll]

You have to keep in mind that ground is shared between EVERYTHING... so since you only need one ground, one audio, and one power you're good to fucking go.

The battery clip is already 'shorted' if there's nothing in it. Battery clips don't connect to themselves. Just make sure that ground remains ground and solder the incoming power (should be the 'ring', you may have to make your own cable now that I think about it... can't trust those Radio Shack adapters) to where the 'hot' on the battery clip was.

Guys... I know I posted that picstory where my inbox is full, but... it's empty now. You can actually ask me questions and get neat little drawings and such. Inbox, AIM, MSN, whatever.

Jeff

 

[xmarcelx]

I mean at (for example) at a EMG equiped guitar the pin in the middle of the stereo jack is connected to the battery clip (black) and the other side (red) of the clip goes to the pups "power in"!
If you insert a mono jack ground is connect to minus of the battery! you can use a stereo and insert the voltage from the outside but then you have to short circuit the poles of the battery clip (instead of a battery) so that the middle pin goes directly to pups power in... simple electronics... sorry for my crappy english!