Agree or disagree

[Wrathchild]

That comes under my "defending yourself and your loved ones" policy, Spiff. Killing just for the hell of it is bad, killing to protect someone from being hurt is a different kettle o' fish altogether.

I don't consider myself either a Christian or a nice person, but I like to think I have a fair idea of what's right and wrong.

Everyone's capable of murder or almost any crime you could think of. Most of us don't do it because we've all been socially conditioned not to. Those who slip through the cracks and think they're outside the law are the ones you need to worry about.

W

 

[spawn]

A plea of temporary insanity doesnt cover it either IMHO, whats to stop you from becoming "temporarily insane" again and killing someone else? Ive always wondered why someone doesnt bring that up in court.

 

[vic was 'ere]

When the evidence is overwhelming like in rape cases with dna and things like the Martin Bryant shootings, I say kill them. Its not meant to be a deterrant as such, its just getting rid of the shit, same way we flush the toilet after we are done.

People against capital punishment are always happy to say no against it until something bad happens to them, you wouldnt be so eager to save lives if yours or someone you loved was threatened believe me

F**k them, scum like that just takes up space, those pack rapists that were recently jailed here (maybe some of the peopl not in Sydney wont know about it) should have just been shot, they are the lowest form of scum on the planet.

Anyway, im done

Capital punishment is not a deterrent and this has been proven. It's more a form of revenge. I think that society is starting to get pissed off with the way that our crims get off so lightly for the most disgusting of crimes and people are demanding harsher sentences. I think so too, as there are some real oxygen wasters out there and one can only wonder why natural selection hasn't wiped them out yet.

People who support capital punishment complain that keeping people in jail is a waste of taxpayer's money, but I don't want to start a debate about the monetary worth of a human life. Someone who has a relative or friend who's been murdered, raped etc and finds that the crim who did it gets a really light jail sentence (or not even that) would understandably be pissed off and question why the victim had to get killed or whatever, while the crim practically gets away with it, so really it's a question of equality if you ask me.

I'm sure there's many people, especially victims of crime or people who know victims of crime, that would give anything to see the crims who screwed them up get killed and rest in pieces. Many a time I have seen on the news people crying when they leave the courtroom because the crim got such a lenient sentence.

I rest my case.

 

[phlogiston]

I'm not real sure it's that easy to be temporarily insane, spawn. I think it has to be pretty extreme circumstances to hold up. For example, I don't think you can say "I saw my girlfriend in bed with another guy, and it got me really mad, so I went downstairs and unlocked the gun case, got out the gun, opened the bit where I keep my bullets, loaded the gun, went back upstairs and then shot him 6 times". That's not insane.

It would be insane on the other hand if he jumped on the guy and ripped his throat out with his teeth. And then I think there'd be anger management issues which would see the guy in a "mental corrective facility" for a time.

There's got to be a line drawn somewhere, and that line starts becoming fuzzy if it's anywhere other than where it is now.

There's a story I wish to refer you to, however I forget what it's called and where it is, and I have to go out for a bit so I can't look it up right now. I have a feeling it a Gaiman story, so maybe Wrath knows which one I'm talking about. The one about abortion, Wrath. You know it?

 

[phlogiston]

I'm sure there's many people, especially victims of crime or people who know victims of crime, that would give anything to see the crims who screwed them up get killed and rest in pieces. Many a time I have seen on the news people crying when they leave the courtroom because the crim got such a lenient sentence.

I rest my case.

There's a pretty significant difference between "lenient sentence" and "death penalty." I'm pretty sure there's a middle ground in there somewhere.

 

[Wrathchild]

That's Babycakes, innit? The one where they run out of animals to experiment on so they start testing embryos instead. Creepy stuff...

W

 

[spawn]

I'm not real sure it's that easy to be temporarily insane, spawn. I think it has to be pretty extreme circumstances to hold up. For example, I don't think you can say "I saw my girlfriend in bed with another guy, and it got me really mad, so I went downstairs and unlocked the gun case, got out the gun, opened the bit where I keep my bullets, loaded the gun, went back upstairs and then shot him 6 times". That's not insane.

It would be insane on the other hand if he jumped on the guy and ripped his throat out with his teeth. And then I think there'd be anger management issues which would see the guy in a "mental corrective facility" for a time.

That first part sounds exactly like what qualifies for temporary insanity these days, its irrellevent whether it really IS temporary insanity as he gets tried on that and not murder usually whenever "crimes of passion" are committed.
Or if he saw them, picked up the scissors on the bedroom table and stabbed him to death 50 times, thats temporary insanity too... People like that should never be let out, not only did they kill someone, they may very well do it again as im sure if you asked them that morning if they would ever kill someone they would have said no... He may say he will never do it again... But whats to stop them?

 

[mattt]

There are still too many cases of people being convicted for crimes they didn't commit.

I agree with that. Way too many people in America and other countries have died or are on death row for crimes they didn't commit. So i disagree JBJ.

 

[phlogiston]

That's Babycakes, innit? The one where they run out of animals to experiment on so they start testing embryos instead. Creepy stuff...

W

No, that's not it, and it's not embryos, it's babies (I just re-read it).

I'm not sure it's Gaiman anymore though, as I can't find it in any of my books.

Anyway, in this story, the age for legal abortion was 8 years old. The rule was was changed so that to be considered a viable human they had to be able to complete a basic maths test. Long story short, this genius type guy stood up to the system and said he couldn't pass the test, so there was debate whether he was human or not and could be aborted or not yada yada yada.

I can't remember the point I was trying to make.

So instead, I'll submit the following story for your edification.

http://www.blackmask.com/olbooks/saki3dex.htm

That was written almost 100 years ago. I'm not sure it has anything to do with the current topic.


Oh yeah, the point I was trying to make is that lines start to blur when rules like that start being made.

 

[TRrEiTxIxRiE DTrash]

Getting the death penalty isn't a punishment. It's an easy way out for the criminal. A few seconds of pain and its all over. Something I haven't seen mentioned here is the families of the criminals.

The death penalty punishes the criminal's family more than it does the criminal. The guy who gets killed gets no punishment at all. Death schmeath. Easy way out. It's their family who are at loss.

Personally I think life imprisonment is a MUCH harsher penalty.

 

[Spiff]

Exactly. And think about the number of mass murderers who COMMIT SUICIDE BEFORE THEY'RE CAUGHT!! You think some of these guys will care about getting executed? Hell no, they probably would have topped themselves given the chance!

 

[spawn]

Nobody gets life imprisonment though. If they did there wouldnt be any debate over it. Life imprisonment is 25 years I believe, then they are allowed out.

 

[Southy]

What if we dont kill 'em just severly punish them for the course of the time inside..if they dide from that...bad luck

And with DNA and other such methods most cases are 95% proved

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I can't believe Troops is the only person who has mentioned that 'there is much worse things than death', which is my stance on the issue. While things really should be changed (as most of you have said, jails are more like motels these days), capital punishment is not the answer. If the prison system were fixed, we would realise that there are much worse things than death, and wouldn't be complaining about people who commit harsh crimes 'getting off easy', and while it isn't part of my arguement, treating criminals like the dogs they are and not pamper them, will save tax payers money. Jail should be a place where criminals are merely kept alive, with no luxuries.

 

[Southy]

Thats what I mean mate, we could just have em tortured daily, if they survive good, if they dont, well they shouldn't have commited murder, rape or whatever such hidieous crime

 

[Winmar]

I believe that the death penalty should be reserved for boy bands. They are the members of society who really do deserve to die.

Murderers and whatnot......hmm it's a tricky one. Better to put them away for 50 years in terrible conditions, I reckon.

 

[MeKaChrOme]

I'll agree that it's hard to find the middle ground.. I'm against the death penalty, though i'm not exactly sure why.

Seeing people commit atrocious crimes and get shit all for it makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with the world...

BUT what if they seriously regret their actions... I'm sure sometimes the perpetrator's life is ruined as well...

It's hard to say I'm sure if someone I know was affected by a 'criminal' i'd sure as hell be asking for the death penalty......

Ah, what to do....

 

[MeKaChrOme]

shite, missed a whole bunch of replies

blitz, i also agree with 'there are worse things than death'... Locking up people with no luxuries and bad living conditions would certainly be harsh.. but we've gotta think about what exactly we are trying to do - extract punishment; rehabilitate; deter, etc etc etc....

Putting em in a cold cell would probably extract punishment, and probably deter them (although they'd probably go nuts...)...

Dunno what i'm in favour for!

 

[Goreripper]

Well this has certainly brought some life to the board hasn't it? I was afraid that it was starting to get boring around here.

 

[Goreripper]

Anyhoo, my two cents:

Is death a punishment? Yes it is. But then again, being locked in prison for the rest of one's life is just as bad, really. They both amount to the same thing, don't they? With the death penalty, you know you're never going to get out of jail alive and with "never to be released" it's the same thing. Except that, with the death penalty, it's all over a lot quicker. If you're locked up for good, you know that, no matter what you do for the rest of your life -- do a uni degree, write a book, or just sit there making things out of your own earwax, you're never going to be a free person to do whatever you want for the rest of your life. Which is good, because if you do something like what Martin Bryant or Ivan Milat or John Glover or the Murphy brothers did, you shouldn't be allowed to do anything but sit there and think about it until the day you die.